BTW, for those who care, Jones' T/E ratio was 0.29 to 1

[Karelinator]

So he has low testosterone, good for him for overcoming that. Is there supposed to be an issue here?

No, we have no idea about his testosterone.

We know that he has very weird testosterone to epitesosterone ratio, because it should be 1:1 or likely even higher in young, high level athlete.

I thought people would already learn after all those years of talking about this stuff.

 

[dr.Mitch]

http://mmajunkie.com/2012/04/medica...ny-why-do-cutoff-limits-vary-for-testosterone

 

[Pterodactyl]

I recall that Overeem tested an abnormally low T/E ration in the fight with BF. Does anyone remember what it was? I would be interested to know how it compared.

 

[Pterodactyl]

It's a good thing that he didn't take that sip of coffee in the locker room because it would have messed up his system.

I know right? Even watching the presser that comment struck me as odd. Now...just lol.

 

[I Am Legion]

From what Im hearing, he had an issue with coke. Not just, hey Im at a party let me do a bump. Enough of ann issue that he checked directly into rehab instead of issuing a statement to the effect of "Hey it was a one time mistake etc etc". Chronic abuse will def lower test, ask any partier from the 80's when coke was huge. I was aound it a lot and every abuser I know Laughed ath the idea that it could be a PED...physically it wreaks havoc. My personal opinion is that Jones has a coke issue but I think his physical attributes let him get away with it. No way he is a roid user.

 

[AmericanParadox]

From what Im hearing, he had an issue with coke. Not just, hey Im at a party let me do a bump. Enough of ann issue that he checked directly into rehab instead of issuing a statement to the effect of "Hey it was a one time mistake etc etc". Chronic abuse will def lower test, ask any partier from the 80's when coke was huge. I was aound it a lot and every abuser I know Laughed ath the idea that it could be a PED...physically it wreaks havoc. My personal opinion is that Jones has a coke issue but I think his physical attributes let him get away with it. No way he is a roid user.

Totally. NO way you guys.

 

[Roger FedorAIR]

Yes, everyone knows that.

Yet medical professionals use it as a reliable indicator. Because T/E is normally produced at 1:1.
But every other fighter seems to have an excuse as to why they are a special case.

From the posts itt, it seems very obvious that everyone does not, in fact it seems more don't than do.

 

[dr.Mitch]

I recall that Overeem tested an abnormally low T/E ration in the fight with BF. Does anyone remember what it was? I would be interested to know how it compared.

http://mmajunkie.com/2012/04/medica...ny-why-do-cutoff-limits-vary-for-testosterone

Everything explained

 

[Nicorette]

sherdog doctors are so ignorant. Everyone dopes, end of story.

 

[Nicorette]

http://mmajunkie.com/2012/04/medica...ny-why-do-cutoff-limits-vary-for-testosterone

Everything explained

That also depends what type of T one takes. There is suspension that leaves body real quickly...

 

[rearnakedchoke]

does this mean he can fight in wmma? dana book it, superfight, bones and ronda

 

[PrinceOfPain]

From what Im hearing, he had an issue with coke. Not just, hey Im at a party let me do a bump. Enough of ann issue that he checked directly into rehab instead of issuing a statement to the effect of "Hey it was a one time mistake etc etc". Chronic abuse will def lower test, ask any partier from the 80's when coke was huge. I was aound it a lot and every abuser I know Laughed ath the idea that it could be a PED...physically it wreaks havoc. My personal opinion is that Jones has a coke issue but I think his physical attributes let him get away with it. No way he is a roid user.

I just want to get this clear.
Are you saying that it's more likely to you that the most dominant LHW in UFC history has had a drug abuse problem that diminishes his abilities than that he is using PEDs to enhance them?

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Jones used coke to mask his PED use.

 

[RenoBJJr]

From the posts itt, it seems very obvious that everyone does not, in fact it seems more don't than do.

Knows what? T/E levels have absolutely nothing to do with JUST supplemented testosterone, if by supplemented testosterone you mean testosterone not naturally created by your body.

If that was the case the allowed limit would be nothing because supplemented testosterone is banned under WADA. It also doesn't measure testosterone in your body, but rather it measure testosterone to epitestosterone. It's possible to have a low ratio but still have high testosterone and visa versa based on the epitestosterone levels in your body.


To me it's actually obviously you don't actually know what a T/E ratio actually is. Unless you're implying that supplemented testosterone would raise your levels because it would raise the testosterone levels but not your epitestosterone levels thus being a good way to JUDGE supplemented testosterone in your body. But again this doesn't JUST judge supplemented T levels in you body, like I think you're implying.
http://www.rxmuscle.com/articles/ch...erone-to-epitestosterone-ratio-drug-test.html

 

[Super Grover]

I think its funny that so many people are still willing to give athletes the benefit of the doubt when it comes to PED's because if there is one thing history has shown its that none of them deserve it. How many times have we been through this? Something weird happens in a test or whatever and we make excuses and come up with theories about why it happened. Then a couple years later they admit that, yeah, they really were cheating.

Remember Ryan Braun's whole "I would never do this" press conference a couple years ago after he go popped for synthetic testosterone? Remember how he ruined a dudes career by putting all the blame on the guy who collected the test sample and got the test result overturned? Two years later MLB caught him again, he admitted to "making mistakes" and agreed to a 65 game suspension. Oops.

Marion Jones, Ben Johnson, Mark Mcgwire, etc etc etc. And I wont even bother with Lance Armstrong because that would go on for pages.


I'm not an expert by any means but history has taught me that if there was something weird with Jon Jones drug test the logical conclusion to draw is that he was doing something he shouldnt have been doing.

 

[Ramificatio]

It doesn't say he has low testosterone, it says his T/E ratio was 0.29 to 1

 

[Roger FedorAIR]

What? No.

Actually a T/E level is testosterone to epitestosterone levels. It doesn't actually measure the actual testosterone in the system. If you had high level of testosterone but equally high levels of epitestosterone then it would come out 1/1 when in reality you have much higher T levels than the average male.

Or the reverse could happen at you could have very low levels of epitestosterone but normal levels of testosterone and test 10/1.

It has nothing to do with supplemented testosterone and if that were the case the allowed limit would be nothing since supplemented testosterone is actually illegal in MMA.

Not sure what you're on about with these 2 sentences as they're my exact sentiments, as well, and kind of hard not to have read by now, given the amount of reporting, and almost over-reporting on the topic.

As for the rest of your post, where are these instances of people supplementing epi, as I'm unaware of an instance where an athlete popped for a failed T/E in the reverse, or an instance where an athlete passed T/E but then tests proved he was dosing equivalent test and epi so as to gain benefits, while still passing the initial test. Not saying that either scenarios are impossible, just that I've never even heard of it, but would gladly stand corrected, if you will substantiate this with any kind of example.

And yes, elevated T/E does, in fact, indicate supplementation of synthetic testosterone, as it is the basis and purpose for the test, to begin with (barring rare genetic anomaly, of course).

 

[dickcheney]

Have his levels from his last couple of fights been released?

 

[Pterodactyl]

http://mmajunkie.com/2012/04/medica...ny-why-do-cutoff-limits-vary-for-testosterone

Everything explained

I appreciate the info, but no, it doesn't answer my question. Following the BF fight, it was reported that AO tested an abnormally low T/E level. I found an article that confirmed it, but it doesn't say exactly what the ratio was, just that it was low. This occurred directly after his 14:1 test, and the presumption was that he had screwed up his system either with masking agents or just years of abuse. Now Jones has tested extremely low himself and is in rehab.
I am curious if anyone knows for comparison's sake.

 

[dr.Mitch]

Knows what? T/E levels have absolutely nothing to do with JUST supplemented testosterone, if by supplemented testosterone you mean testosterone not naturally created by your body.

If that was the case the allowed limit would be nothing because supplemented testosterone is banned under WADA. It also doesn't measure testosterone in your body, but rather it measure testosterone to epitestosterone. It's possible to have a low ratio but still have high testosterone and visa versa based on the epitestosterone levels in your body.


To me it's actually obviously you don't actually know what a T/E ratio actually is. Unless you're implying that supplemented testosterone would raise your levels because it would raise the testosterone levels but not your epitestosterone levels thus being a good way to JUDGE supplemented testosterone in your body. But again this doesn't JUST judge supplemented T levels in you body, like I think you're implying.
http://www.rxmuscle.com/articles/ch...erone-to-epitestosterone-ratio-drug-test.html

Yes and that is why they allow it up to 6:1 ratio...Even though maybe 1% of population has that high of a ratio. External test does not effect epitestosterone levels, just the test levels. So if your normal t/e levels are for example 3:1 if you have 14:1 (like reem) it's likely you injected some testosterone. It doesn's say how much test you have, but if you're an avarege male - it's about 14 times more then other people.

In Jones case - one of the explinations would be he was about at the 2-3 weeks after his last test injection, and his natural test didn't recover fully yet. Knowing that he maybe snorted some coke so he could later blame it on coke. Or it could just be my conspiracy theory