Brock Lesnar to compete in ADCC

[Ninjamurf]

meh. other fighters have competed.

Not recently. And even then only pretty much "no name" fighters at that. From my brief research here's what I found. Fighters in the '09 ADCC who were in the UFC at some point.
Pe de Pano, Lister, Ricco, Werdum, Monson, and Vinny Malgalhaes. All of them were out of the UFC by the time the '09 ADCC rolled around. Lister is an interesting example in that he competed way back in the ADCC but not during his stint in the UFC from '06-'08. Monson is another one who fought in the ADCC prior to his recent UFC stint in '06, then went back to the ADCC in '09.

'07 ADCC fighters with UFC experience...Werdum, Sinosic, Pe de Pano, Pellegrino, Okami, and Maia.

Maia-All UFC appearances AFTER the '07 ADCC.
Werdum-Lost to Arlovski 2 weeks prior to the '07 ADCC. Then had 3 more UFC fights and was gone in '08
Pe de Pano-all of his UFC fights were between ADCC's from '05-06
Pellegrino-interesting that he had 3 fights with the UFC prior to the '07 ADCC. Not sure of his contract status at the time but he wasn't a "big" player in the UFC at that time anyway.
Okami-same as Pellegrino. 4x in the UFC prior to '07 ADCC but he was a no name then as well.
Sinosic-meh.

2005 seems to be the turning point in regards to the UFC's crackdown on their fighters and really writing in exclusivity clauses. '05 ADCC competitors...
Gonzaga-competed in '05 ADCC prior to UFC. No ADCC since.
Ricco-Came back to the ADCC after UFC stint from '01-03
Diego-Ultimate Fighter Finale in April of '05. ADCC in May. All UFC after.
Van Arsdale-one fight prior to ADCC in '05. 2 after. Not a big player.
Trigg and GSP both had 4 fights prior to the '05 ADCC. I'm pretty sure that when GSP's contract came up after that they locked him down. Trigg left, came back, blah, blah, blah.
Pe de Pano-see above
Werdum-see above
Maia-not in UFC yet. See above

Others such as Wiuff, Lindland, Terrel, and Serra had back and forth relationships with the UFC long ago. In any case my point is that no one of note (and no champion) has competed in the ADCC while being under contract with the UFC. So I think this whole thread is wasted.

Edit: and now that I see that Comprido didn't even make those remarks it's pretty much confirmed. End of thread?

 

[skey91***]

IDK about lower weight class, but hes certainly lost to people in his weight class. Moreas comes to mind.



So, he never said Lesnar would compete in ADCC?

I'm no grappling expert, I follow the sport but wrestling is my expertise.

I just alwasy felt that Garcia, Roger and Jacare were the top 3 and I always put Marcelo slightly ahead. I love watching him grapple and its amazing how he has done against bigger comp.

 

[Mike Wilson Jr.]

yeah i hear ya. i love marcelo. his style is my favorite to watch. Hes a warrior, no doubt about it.

but Roger is on another level. to submit everyone, and to have never been submitted at Black Belt =s just amazing.

what he did at both Mundials, and ADCC. will never be done again.

 

[skey91***]

yeah i hear ya. i love marcelo. his style is my favorite to watch. Hes a warrior, no doubt about it.

but Roger is on another level. to submit everyone, and to have never been submitted at Black Belt =s just amazing.

what he did at both Mundials, and ADCC. will never be done again.

Your probably right about the accomplishments but I will always wonder what if Garcia was Rogers size.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Your probably right about the accomplishments but I will always wonder what if Garcia was Rogers size.

garcia wouldnt be garcia if he was Roger's size, while size add strengh and weight to carry, also makes you slower, less explosive, and less technical....

 

[skey91***]

garcia wouldnt be garcia if he was Roger's size, while size add strengh and weight to carry, also makes you slower, less explosive, and less technical....

Well thats not 100% true

If Garcia was that eight in his current frame then yeah but there are big athletes who are fast, explosive, flexible and can learn the technique.

Remember big guys have more options when it comes to sports.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

You messed up the quoting so i'll break them out.



well can you make your mind up, either Marcelo's absolute runs are significant or they are not - i have pointed out that whilst he has beaten bigger players, they were scarcely what one might call Elite. you said weight doesn't matter, well it does when skill is similar, it doesn't when you are fighting someone heavier you outclass. I would put Brock's grappling prowess coupled with his physicality above Ricco or Rolles or Van Arsdale.

In any case, one can win ADCC without attempting a single submission hold, so i think you are going down a rabbit hole to nowhere by trying to differentiate relatively between submission wrestling and wrestling. put world beaters like Taymazov or Makhov to one side, any world top 10/20 freestyle or greco wrestler would ruin at least 90% of their opposition just through dint of their greater physicality/athleticism regardless of their oppositions' sub grappling prowess.




*yes his kryptonite.
*I trained with Roger for 7 years, so i might have a slightly better insight into him than most. the fact i am not jumping all over the thread saying "omg omg Roger is the greatest, Roger FTW " but engaging in reasoned argument about where he might not fare so well should tell you something.
*Jacare beat him in the 2004 and 2005 Mundials Absolute finals (Roger beat him in the 2005 european absolute final and 2005 ADCC absolute final).
*Roger did not break his arm, he hyperextended his elbow resulting in ligament damage.
*Xande beat Roger at the 2006 and 2008 Mundials Absolute finals and the 2006 Pan Ams Super Heavy Final.
*Xande may play points against Roger, but he has his share of subs to, at the 2006 mundials, Roger and he subbed all their opponents barring each other in their final.
*Any match he has against xande or jacare would never be easy to call.
*Regardless of when he beat him (and they last fought in 2007), Jon Olav is perhaps the guy closest in style to my mind to Roger and probably his most dangerous opponent to date.
*again, i feel Roger struggles with shorter, powerful, explosive, top game players, the 5 defeats against Jacare and Xande go some way to bear this belief out - a prime Arona or Monson could well have beaten him, but since he never fought them, how he fared against other grapplers is rather irrelevant. equally how monson and arona have done at ADCC against other grapplers (rather well actually) is also rather irrelevant.




what exactly has Arona ever done to distinguish himself as a submission wrestler distinct from a wrestler in ADCC - he hasn't ever submitted anyone. you ignore my comparison with Ortiz, a smaller, less accomplished wrestler than Brock who took Arona to a refs decision when Arona was in his prime.
and again, you cannot say sub wrestling and wrestling are two totally different styles when people who are moderately good at the latter (kerr, arona, ortiz) have already had success in the former.

and it is total inaccurate to say that arona is 10x more technical or faster or whatever without providing any specific comparators.
based on his nfl combine stats alone ((at 6'4'', 296lbs - 40 Yard Dash: 4.65 seconds; Vertical Jump: 35 inches; Broad Jump: 10 foot; Bench Press: 43 reps of 225lbs) i'd say those indicate brock is a more explosive, faster athlete than arona. Absolutely no way would Arona put up those numbers any time in the last decade, even when he was chemically enhanced.

well, I will have to pay my respects to you, training with roger for 7 years in no shit, but you totally lose me here...

what exactly has Arona ever done to distinguish himself as a submission wrestler distinct from a wrestler in ADCC - he hasn't ever submitted anyone. you ignore my comparison with Ortiz, a smaller, less accomplished wrestler than Brock who took Arona to a refs decision when Arona was in his prime.

you are downplaying Arona, but saying he could beat or will be a toss up with Roger??? (talking about arona at his prime) do you really think Tito would've taken Roger to a decision???

for what you have said, you must be a very experience grappler, and you have hang around with the best for 7 years, though its pretty simple to see that the level from ADCC 1999 and 2009 are in no way comparable...

 

[J Sho]

I am not downplaying Arona i am saying that as a submission wrestler, he is more focussed on the wrestling and less on the submission - he did not submit a single person en route to his 4 ADCC titles, rather he tended to outwrestle them and dominate from top control.

I mention Tito to point out that a smaller, less accomplished wrestler than Brock took Arona to a refs decision.

I would still say that the make up of a given bracket has always been relatively consistent, 3, 4 maybe 5 elite bjj black belts, a decent wrestler or judoka occasionally and then the rest (european or asian) making up the numbers. Certainly the latter group have increased in terms of skill and experience over the years and are less cannon fodder than they were, but the number of genuine world class players in a given field is probably constant. i'll check out the stats to see what's what.

Also what the fuck is up with people claiming Arona is a "wrestler"? A Ricardo Liborio black (or brown when he won his first) belt who attempted submissions is a wrestler because he had a powerful top game? There is alot more to BJJ than submissions people.

well, semantics really - i meant that as a submission wrestler, he did more of the latter than the former, so whilst he may not be in the classic mould of a freestyle wrestler, he has great takedowns and very good top control (and he certainly has learned wrestling in his time, not least from Gholar) which he used to great effect. nowhere do i take away from his accomplishments by stating he is a good wrestler.

Also Kerr submitted Barnett in ADCC. Just stating because some people said he didnt submit anyone.

no i stated that both Arona and Kerr effectively wrestled their way to all their titles and that Kerr at least had submitted one person.

 

[J Sho]

I think youre off base with Arona. His submission skills are amazing. He is primarily a top control player, but you are just throwing words around like all he does is lay there.

Did you watch his runs in 2000? and 2001?

There was great technical wrestling/bjj transitions going on there.

The knee tap/pick he landed on Kerr, was f'ing textbook.

BTW, i believe he has 2 submission on his record. Im surprised you havent researched that. Look it up. I know for a fact, he has at least one win by submission at ADCC.

you are right i had forgotten his match with Neff.

I am not downplaying his BJJ ability, just specifically praising his wrestling ability.

nowhere do i say he just lies there, i said he has great top control.

 

[Mike Wilson Jr.]

^ I see.


Well nonetheless, it seems Brock isnt going anywhere, anytime soon, but it did spark some interesting debate.

 

[Doctor Venture]

Should be interesting, I hope he does go. I cant fathom him subbing anyone, but he could do well.