Brock Lesnar is criminally underrated as a true "Mixed Martial Artist"

[mkess101]

Add great strength and decent power in his hands and you would be right. But by that point you are listing 4 of 7 traits needed to be a good MMA fighter.
Wrestling or analogue Check
Speed Check
Strength Check
Hand Power Check
Kicking power - negative
Cardio - probably above average here
Submissions - He did arm triangle Carwin so passible?

We could add to that list, Chin? I would say below average, but I am including his occasional reaction to being punched in the face, and his weakness to body shots.
When you look at it honestly he is pretty well rounded, He could sure use some more work on technique.

If he dedicated himself to MMA I do wonder what the result would be.

* all of these are affected by his steroid use, without steroids, who knows what his performance would be like. For this reason he is not one of the "Greats" even though his resume and title defenses should put him in the category of HW greats.

I don't think you can take much away from that sub of Carwin. Shane had gassed himself out horribly trying to finish Brock in the previous round. Brock basically subbed the equivalent of a grappling dummy, Carwin was done.

 

[Cozytoesflava]

1) Mainly because I'm tired of reading basement dwelling pussy Sherdoggers write about shit they don't understand and who have never actually spent a day in the gym or have any understanding of what training actually means.
2) To point out the hypocrisy of hating on brock when shit loads of fighters, who usually have a NCAA or BJJ background, are succesfull but are not even close to full time fighters, yet are respected.

You got gotten to?

 

[Mixedfights]

Brock sucks. He turtles in 1 min.

 

[EdmundsEmptyBankAccount]

I see this all the time in threads. Brock is green, Brock is a part time fighter, etc etc. I think most of this hate is simply because he was in WWE. Plenty of MMA fighters have been successful while not only holding a second job, but having less experience than Brock. To illustrate this point, I'll tell a little story. As you can guess from my join date, I've been around the game a long time.

The first time I saw Brock in person was at a power lifting competition in Iowa in 2006. The gym we used was also the home of Militech's gym. I got to talk to several fighters there including Matt Hughes and it was an awesome experience. Brock was all the talk and there were some pretty great stories. Mainly, that Brock got tapped out quite a bit his first few weeks, but was an absolute animal in the gym, and was already a handful after a month or so for everyone. And what gave him a HUGE advantage was that he was there every day, all day. Coupled with his already strong background in grappling, his ability to train full time, and his physical ability, the consensus from the folks I talked to that he would be unstoppable in 1 to 2 years time.

Flash forward 9 months, and I was back in Davenport for another lifting meet in late 2006. And guess what? Brock was still there, living in Iowa, and doing nothing but training. He left I believe shortly afterwards, but I was back at the Militech gym in 2008. Basically the word was he was constantly training grappling and submissions with Greg Nelson and other coaches back in Minnesota. Later on I learned is when he started Death Clutch.

Which brings me to my main point; people who have never trained don't realize how important it is to get a quantity of time in the gym. I've trained MT and BJJ for almost 15 years... but that is going to 1 hour classes 3-4 times a week. At that rate, I will never actually be elite at either. Brock has been in the position to train nearly full time, and has been doing it for nearly 10 years.

Yet if you listen to Shertards, Brock is a newbie. What they don't realize is that time in the Octagon is when you get to execute what you have learned, not a time to learn new things. Its time actually training that makes you a better MMA fighter. The consensus when Brock fought Carwin was that Brock was this somehow newb to MMA. when it was actually Carwin who treated MMA as a hobby, never trained full time, and his full time job was an engineer. Same thing with Miocic. Dude is a firefighter by trade and a part time fighter. Yet they don't get the hate Brock does, even though they if you actually measured time in training, it would pale to what Brock has put in.

Enjoyed the read, thank you. How'd you find yourself in Iowa to have those experiences?

I find it interesting that people toss Brock aside for roids when Heavyweight is a wasteland of steroids:
Werdum - busted
Overeem - busted
Barnett - busted
JDS - busted
Mark Coleman - lol

I am a huge Mark Hunt fan for being a NATTY FATTY.
I have a dream in my heart that Fedor really was clean even though Pride.

 

[Nueman43]

Oh.

that's because he sucks, is the product of decades of heavy PED use, and the only reason he's had any degree of success is because he fights in a division with a 60lb gap in weight where he can use his size to his advantage. I think that is less of a case today than it was when he was the "champion", but it still holds true.

Oh and he responds like an amateur if not worse when he faces any adversity....He simply doesn't belong fighting in the UFC in any meaningful capacity other than a fun sorta side show fight on a PPV....It's embarrassing on so many levels to have him compete.

The ONLY reason he's here is because the investors want a fucking return sooner than later.

Did you see the Carwin fight? I think it depends. He is much more comfortable in bad positions on the ground.

 

[Fedorer13]

Its true he is the only guy I always thought that would beat DC. Stylistically Brock is the worst matchup for him.

Lolwut

 

[James L]

Lolwut

Right? Who in their right mind, thinks Lesnar is a nightmare stylistic match up for DC? Brock has reach that he doesn't know how to use without lifting his back foot up in such uncoordinated fashion it's as if he's the world's goofiest soccer player or most unnatural ballerina.

He has not really been training in the sport for years now. He basically got sick fought twice more and went back to pro wrestling.

Your post made me laugh more than it should have have.

If that confuses you, yet you know who Norm MacDonald is, read it in his voice.

If you don't, fuck it, try Ray Ramonos voice: any sentence is funny in that speaking style.

 

[Nueman43]

I don't think you can take much away from that sub of Carwin. Shane had gassed himself out horribly trying to finish Brock in the previous round. Brock basically subbed the equivalent of a grappling dummy, Carwin was done.

His technique was actually really good. I am not going to argue that Carwin was a tough sub, merely that Brock did things correctly. Pretty good considering the brain rattling he received in the first round.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Brock is no different than a guy like Maia, extremely one dimensional

 

[Greco_Wiz]

He’s had the toughest start to an mma career of any fighter in history, by far.

Almost 90% of his career was against opponents ranked in the top 10, and most were top 5. For comparison, someone like Fedor had about 40% of his career against ranked opponents.

In his prime he was probably the best in the world or at least one of the best. He would of absolutely crushed most of Pride’s roster if it was in the cage.

 

[Thrawn33]

Those deficiencies would have gotten obviously better and better with just more sparring. He got into the sport when he was practically 30. More rounds you get in the more comfortable you are. Unfortunately the sport was not a big thing in terms of making money when he graduated from college.

Agree, his chin wasn't the problem, but his composure. Having your own private training team with partners who most likely didn't hit hit him much didn't help either.

 

[KazDibiase]

Work ethic and steroids are good to have, yes. But what really set Brock apart is his breakdancing.

 

[Patrick Jane]

He's just a jacked up white boy.

 

[car epic win]

so many bitter goofs mad brock gorilla mauled their boy mark hunt, who they were sure was going to one punch KO brock

 

[mkess101]

His technique was actually really good. I am not going to argue that Carwin was a tough sub, merely that Brock did things correctly. Pretty good considering the brain rattling he received in the first round.

Yeah...an arm triangle is pretty simple technique-wise. He did it correctly I agree, but Carwin put up literally zero resistance.

 

[Nueman43]

Yeah...an arm triangle is pretty simple technique-wise. He did it correctly I agree, but Carwin put up literally zero resistance.

Rewatch the sub and watch Lesnar's legs. He uses a move that I have only seen BJ pull off.

 

[mkess101]

Rewatch the sub and watch Lesnar's legs. He uses a move that I have only seen BJ pull off.

Alright I will. Maybe there's something there I missed when I saw it years ago.

 

[LockardTheGOAT]

Brock is overrated if anything, he certainly isn't underrated. Beating a 45 year-old Randy Couture (who was coming off a 15 month layoff), having a split series with Frank Mir, and needing steroids to beat a 12-10-1 Mark Hunt is nothing to gloat about.

 

[Nueman43]

I think it is called a windshield wiper guard pass.

 

[storeybuckle]

I see this all the time in threads. Brock is green, Brock is a part time fighter, etc etc. I think most of this hate is simply because he was in WWE. Plenty of MMA fighters have been successful while not only holding a second job, but having less experience than Brock. To illustrate this point, I'll tell a little story. As you can guess from my join date, I've been around the game a long time.

The first time I saw Brock in person was at a power lifting competition in Iowa in 2006. The gym we used was also the home of Militech's gym. I got to talk to several fighters there including Matt Hughes and it was an awesome experience. Brock was all the talk and there were some pretty great stories. Mainly, that Brock got tapped out quite a bit his first few weeks, but was an absolute animal in the gym, and was already a handful after a month or so for everyone. And what gave him a HUGE advantage was that he was there every day, all day. Coupled with his already strong background in grappling, his ability to train full time, and his physical ability, the consensus from the folks I talked to that he would be unstoppable in 1 to 2 years time.

Flash forward 9 months, and I was back in Davenport for another lifting meet in late 2006. And guess what? Brock was still there, living in Iowa, and doing nothing but training. He left I believe shortly afterwards, but I was back at the Militech gym in 2008. Basically the word was he was constantly training grappling and submissions with Greg Nelson and other coaches back in Minnesota. Later on I learned is when he started Death Clutch.

Which brings me to my main point; people who have never trained don't realize how important it is to get a quantity of time in the gym. I've trained MT and BJJ for almost 15 years... but that is going to 1 hour classes 3-4 times a week. At that rate, I will never actually be elite at either. Brock has been in the position to train nearly full time, and has been doing it for nearly 10 years.

Yet if you listen to Shertards, Brock is a newbie. What they don't realize is that time in the Octagon is when you get to execute what you have learned, not a time to learn new things. Its time actually training that makes you a better MMA fighter. The consensus when Brock fought Carwin was that Brock was this somehow newb to MMA. when it was actually Carwin who treated MMA as a hobby, never trained full time, and his full time job was an engineer. Same thing with Miocic. Dude is a firefighter by trade and a part time fighter. Yet they don't get the hate Brock does, even though they if you actually measured time in training, it would pale to what Brock has put in.

What are you talking about TS, criminally underrated ? When he began his MMA career 90% of Sherdog ( I know most of that percentage was made up of wrasslin nerds) couldn’t get his balls out of their mouths.

If anything he was highly touted when he started not under rated!