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So you're basing the views of an entire country on anecdotal evidence.
At least you're honest about it I suppose.
At least you're honest about it I suppose.
International Brexit News & Discussion v7: British Parliament Rejects Theresa May's Brexit Deal (Again)
- Thread starter Arkain2K
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What makes you think the first referendum was about hard Brexit?
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Considering how close it was in some areas a 'big' swing in opinion probably wouldn't be necessary , of the 50,000 odd votes cast in my area there was only 700 votes between nay and yay .
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Precisely
The black and white nature of the vote and the ambiguity over what leave meant are a large part of the reason for the current clusterfuck
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What makes you think It wasn't? People didn't vote for a million strings attached. Don't even make that dishonest argument
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Outsider here.
From my cursory view of the Brexit campaign, many promises were made that ceased to materialize when it came down to negotiations. A big one I recall seeing was a large bus promising an inordinate amount for the NHS.
When "Leave" is predicated on all these things, and they cease to exist in the end, i'd say it's not what the people voted for either. Kinda like buying a new car, and before you close, you find out that the nice new tires they promised you are actually 10 years old. I wouldn't then close on that car, even if my aim was to buy a new car at the outset.
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Wtf? The only one being dishonest here is you.
Here is the question that was posed in the referendum:
'Leave means leave', but leave doesn't mean hard Brexit. This is a fantasy not grounded in reality. There are many ways to ''leave the European Union'.
The way I remember it, people voted for a Brexit that would magically fund the NHS. In other word, people voted for something that doesn't exist in any dimension. Essentially, people had no fucking clue what Brexit would mean. They do, now, but largely choose to ridicule and ignore the facts. Well, only partially my problem (in as far as Brexit hits Germany as an exporter).
Personally, I say let's get it over with. Britain had more than enough time to come to terms with the reality of Brexit to reverse course. They did not. I don't see any sense in postponing the inevitable.
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The problem with the question
The question assumes a binary choice — Remain or Leave the EU — while voting theory warns that allowing only two options can easily be a misleading representation of the real choice. When the true situation is more complex, and especially if it is one that arouses strong passions, then reducing the question to a binary one might suggest a political motivation. As a result of the present process, we actually don’t know how people would have voted when they had been offered the true options.
Compare the question: ‘Do you still beat your mother ?’
When you are allowed only a Yes or No answer, then you are blocked from answering:
‘I will not answer that question because if I say No then it suggests that I agree that I have beaten her in the past.’
In the case of Brexit, the hidden complexity concerned:
— Leave, and adopt an EFTA or WTO framework?
— Leave, while the UK remains intact or while it splits up?
— Remain, in what manner?
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/05/17/the-brexit-referendum-question-was-flawed-in-its-design/
The question assumes a binary choice — Remain or Leave the EU — while voting theory warns that allowing only two options can easily be a misleading representation of the real choice. When the true situation is more complex, and especially if it is one that arouses strong passions, then reducing the question to a binary one might suggest a political motivation. As a result of the present process, we actually don’t know how people would have voted when they had been offered the true options.
Compare the question: ‘Do you still beat your mother ?’
When you are allowed only a Yes or No answer, then you are blocked from answering:
‘I will not answer that question because if I say No then it suggests that I agree that I have beaten her in the past.’
In the case of Brexit, the hidden complexity concerned:
— Leave, and adopt an EFTA or WTO framework?
— Leave, while the UK remains intact or while it splits up?
— Remain, in what manner?
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/05/17/the-brexit-referendum-question-was-flawed-in-its-design/
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Well if you look at the arguments made by leave then both Nigel Farage and Dan Hannan both said access to the Single market would continue unabated. David Davis and Liam Fox both said a FTA was a guarantee - (And that's just examples off the top of my head)
So to say a No deal exit was what voting leave meant is a complete fallacy.
So to say a No deal exit was what voting leave meant is a complete fallacy.
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I mean these are intelligent people (even if they make shit policies). They cannot have believed that.
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Hannan is the only one who's stuck by it. As soon as the Govt. signalled hard Brexit (and were tacitly aware the Leader of the opposition would placate them) Fox/Farage et al decided that the 17M+ people who voted leave all voted for the most extreme Brexit
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It was.
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Wtf? The only one being dishonest here is you.
Here is the question that was posed in the referendum:
'Leave means leave', but leave doesn't mean hard Brexit. This is a fantasy not grounded in reality. There are many ways to ''leave the European Union'.
The way I remember it, people voted for a Brexit that would magically fund the NHS. In other word, people voted for something that doesn't exist in any dimension. Essentially, people had no fucking clue what Brexit would mean. They do, now, but largely choose to ridicule and ignore the facts. Well, only partially my problem (in as far as Brexit hits Germany as an exporter).
Personally, I say let's get it over with. Britain had more than enough time to come to terms with the reality of Brexit to reverse course. They did not. I don't see any sense in postponing the inevitable.
q.e.d.
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The tactic was to terrify the nation with the worst case scenario as we witnessed with the world war 3, economic collapse and disaster fear mongering talk by the at the time cabinet pre referendum.
Make no mistake they made us all very aware of route we were taking. It backfired and the nation stuck up the middle finger.
Let me tell you now, people wanted less immigration, full control of our laws and free to do our own trade. None of which is possible with a wishy washy half assed deal. Everyone I've spoken to up and down the country was fully aware of what they wanted.
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The promise was 350 million per week
Its actually 390 million as confirmed by the chancellor in his budget.
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Post brexit budget?
How's that the case if the terms haven't even been agreed upon? Serious question.
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Even so,
The top ranked priority overall was ensuring that the UK has strong economic growth, with a majority of people believing this was more important than the UK having control over its laws and regulations (54% vs 46%), being able to strike trade deals outside the EU (59% vs 41%), and reducing immigration (66% to 34%).
http://ukandeu.ac.uk/new-polling-reveals-shift-from-immigration-to-sovereignty-as-the-priority/
This whole ''Project Fear' bs and especially the notion that the evil EU does everything to make sure the UK stays are inventions of the Farages of the world. I cursed more than once about the damn Brits who consistently had their cake and ate it, too, via the special rebate.
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https://fullfact.org/health/nhs-england-394-million-more/
When we leave the EU we won’t be sending, you know, the vast amounts of money to the EU every year that we do at the moment. That means we will have money to spend on priorities like the NHS… We’ve set out that we’ll be putting more money into the NHS over the next five years, and it will mean £394 million more a week more going into our National Health Service.”
Theresa May, 16 November 2018
