International Brexit Discussion v9: The Last Extension

[Arkain2K]

It benefits the US just as much to give UK a good fair deal out of the gate to entice other EU nations to follow suit and leave the Brussels Syndicate behind.

Other international nations like Brazil, Canada, Mexico, India, southeast Asia would also probably give out trade deals to the UK almost immediately.

I initially wanted other countries to come up with mutually-beneficial deals with the U.K, I really did. Despite all the self-defeating nonsense about Britain having "zero leverage whatsoever", the 3rd-largest European economy still have plenty to offer the world, be it their world-class financial services, their plentiful fishing resources, or their intelligence/defense capabilities that's still ahead of most European powers.

But now? After one shambolic dumpster fire after another? I would be surprised if ANYONE would give them an inch at the negotiation table if they keep this self-sabotaging bullshit up, as the entire world can clearly see that Brits are much more interested in selling their country short and continues to go for each other's throats on their own side of the negotiation table, rather than recognizing their self-worth and work together.

PS: I disagree that any of those trade deals can be done "almost immediately". Any comprehensive negotiation would likely take years to complete, and there's also the sticky political issue of getting Parliament approval, which could take many more months.

 

[Cirris]

I initially wanted other countries to come up with mutually-beneficial deals with the U.K, I really did. Despite all the self-defeating nonsense about Britain having "zero leverage whatsoever", the 3rd-largest European economy still have plenty to offer the world, be it their world-class financial services, their plentiful fishing resources, or their intelligence/defense capabilities that's still ahead of most European powers.

But now? After one shambolic dumpster fire after another? I would be surprised if ANYONE would give them an inch at the negotiation table if they keep this self-sabotaging bullshit up, as the entire world can clearly see that Brits are much more interested in selling their country short and continues to go for each other's throats on their own side of the negotiation table, rather than recognizing their self-worth and work together.

PS: I disagree that any of those trade deals can be done "almost immediately". Any comprehensive negotiation would likely take years to complete, and there's also the sticky political issue of getting Parliament approval, which could take many more months.

Well that just goes back to the original gripe with the Tory remainers, and Theresa May. They didn't want to go through with Brexit at all. So they've been intentionally sabotaging and stalling the process.

I would go far as to say they sabotaged the last PM election by pursuing an atrociously vile manifesto that made the party look stupid. And almost handed the government over to Corbyn and his Marxist cultist Labour party.

 

[7437]

Well that just goes back to the original gripe with the Tory remainers, and Theresa May. They didn't want to go through with Brexit at all. So they've been intentionally sabotaging and stalling the process.

I would go far as to say they sabotaged the last PM election by pursuing an atrociously vile manifesto that made the party look stupid. And almost handed the government over to Corbyn and his Marxist cultist Labour party.

The party against Brexit will work against. Brexit when elected? Truly a shocking twist.

 

[aitkenmike]

Either sober up, or learn to improve your reading-comprehension level.

Brexit is happening. The world don't particularly care about which camp you belonged to. You all need to stop this self-sabotaging bullshit now and WORK TOGETHER, or else you gonna be screwed by everyone else, after you're done screwing yourselves.

There is no 'WORK TOGETHER'. 40% of the country think any agreement that compromises a single inch is BREXIT IN NAME ONLY!!!, 40% of the country think BREXIT in any form is completely moronic and will ruin the country, 5% think making a deal suits their political interest, and 15% don't give a shit.

 

[MiniCraque]

One thing that people seem to miss when they talk about trade deals made after Brexit goes through... trade deals aren't just signed over a couple of meetings. A long ass time passes between initial negotiations and signing and even more time passes between that and actual implementation. The EU will still be the UK's majority trade partner (that tends to happen when the largest single market in the world is right next to you) and they take countless years to get anything going. Their trade deal with Canada took seven years to sign (just sign, not implement). Mercosur took 20.

In an ideal world securing trade deals would've been a focus of UK leadership from the moment the referendum's results were known but they were probably thinking they could strike some deal with the EU in that sense (like staying in the common market). I don't think the apocalyptic shitstorm that no deal will inevitably be was something they anticipated at first.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

One thing that people seem to miss when they talk about trade deals made after Brexit goes through... trade deals aren't just signed over a couple of meetings. A long ass time passes between initial negotiations and signing and even more time passes between that and actual implementation. The EU will still be the UK's majority trade partner (that tends to happen when the largest single market in the world is right next to you) and they take countless years to get anything going. Their trade deal with Canada took seven years to sign (just sign, not implement). Mercosur took 20.

In an ideal world securing trade deals would've been a focus of UK leadership from the moment the referendum's results were known but they were probably thinking they could strike some deal with the EU in that sense (like staying in the common market). I don't think the apocalyptic shitstorm that no deal will inevitably be was something they anticipated at first.

I would imagine they would speed things up in this particular instance even if it has historically taken many years to pen these things. A trade deal with a post brexit UK doesn't seem comparable here.

 

[MiniCraque]

I would imagine they would speed things up in this particular instance even if it has historically taken many years to pen these things. A trade deal with a post brexit UK doesn't seem comparable here.

Even if they're in a hurry, it just doesn't work like that. Trade deals are absurdly complicated. From the studies you have to order to determine how individual industries in both markets will be affected, to the actual negotiations, to ironing out stuff like regulatory standards (like food safety) and logistics, to finally coming to an agreement, to submitting the deal to each side's legislative branch, to the implementation phase... there's only so much you can expedite, especially if the other side doesn't really care about doing that.

It's very likely that a US-UK trade deal wouldn't go into effect while Trump is still president and that's assuming he's even reelected.

 

[7437]

Even if they're in a hurry, it just doesn't work like that. Trade deals are absurdly complicated. From the studies you have to order to determine how individual industries in both markets will be affected, to the actual negotiations, to ironing out stuff like regulatory standards (like food safety) and logistics, to finally coming to an agreement, to submitting the deal to each side's legislative branch, to the implementation phase... there's only so much you can expedite, especially if the other side doesn't really care about doing that.

It's very likely that a US-UK trade deal wouldn't go into effect while Trump is still president and that's assuming he's even reelected.

Mr. Xi Jinpeng could probably bypass quite a bit of that. Probably has a deal already written up and on standby for when things get desperate.

 

[Arkain2K]

There is no 'WORK TOGETHER'. 40% of the country think any agreement that compromises a single inch is BREXIT IN NAME ONLY!!!, 40% of the country think BREXIT in any form is completely moronic and will ruin the country, 5% think making a deal suits their political interest, and 15% don't give a shit.

Yeah, and that's exactly why it's so damn hard for outside people who are sympathetic to the Brits to continue watching this self-sabotaging bullshit, not just in the British Parliament but among their people as well.

I consider Britain to be a friend and ally, and I don't want to see them being squeezed by anyone, because I know there are many things that Britain can offer to the world. There is no logical reason why friends and allies can't have a mutually-beneficial agreement. And as with all compromises, you gotta give an inch here to get an inch somewhere else. That's what a business negotiation is.

But fuck, it's so frustrating to see their own people (that you estimated to be 80%) would rather watch it all burn if they can't get their way, just to make a stupid point that's completely meaningless to the rest of the world out there, while the people they're negotiating with are watching the implosion with glee.

 

[purist]

pound shop churchill gettin schooled as usual...

LOL Stanley White is a parody account.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Brexit Party %

 

[panamaican]

Yeah, and that's exactly why it's so damn hard for outside people who are sympathetic to the Brits to continue watching this self-sabotaging bullshit, not just in the British Parliament but among their people as well.

I consider Britain to be a friend and ally, and I don't want to see them being squeezed by anyone, because I know there are many things that Britain can offer to the world. There is no logical reason why friends and allies can't have a mutually-beneficial agreement. And as with all compromises, you gotta give an inch here to get an inch somewhere else. That's what a business negotiation is.

But fuck, it's so frustrating to see their own people (that you estimated to be 80%) would rather watch it all burn if they can't get their way, just to make a stupid point that's completely meaningless to the rest of the world out there, while the people they're negotiating with are watching the implosion with glee.

They made a stupid point when they voted for a Brexit, full stop.

What they're experiencing now is not self-sabotage. It's what happens when people make simplistic decisions on extremely complicated subjects. You spend the foreseeable future trying to figure out exactly what to do.

I think your sympathy is misplaced. The people who voted for Brexit had every opportunity, prior to Brexit, to understand what would happen. They just didn't care about reality, they convinced themselves that they could vote for Brexit, knowing what that would mean, and still negotiate something that would offset Brexit.

It's like saying I'm going to take a job in another city and then try to find a way to keep living in my old house. That's something I should figure out before I take the new job, not after I've accepted the job and have a start date.

The Leavers wanted Brexit in name only. They wanted out of the EU but a negotiated trade deal that would preserve the benefits of being in the EU. It was never going to happen. And so long as they refuse to accept that they have to be in the EU to access the benefits of the EU, they're going to keep floundering and they're going to keep trying to blame everyone else for their problem. There are no simple solutions here and they seem to think that one should be presented forthwith and the fact that it hasn't been presented forthwith means people are sabotaging them. Nope, it's just far more complicated than they're willing to accept.

 

[Arkain2K]

They made a stupid point when they voted for a Brexit, full stop.

What they're experiencing now is not self-sabotage. It's what happens when people make simplistic decisions on extremely complicated subjects. You spend the foreseeable future trying to figure out exactly what to do.

I think your sympathy is misplaced. The people who voted for Brexit had every opportunity, prior to Brexit, to understand what would happen. They just didn't care about reality, they convinced themselves that they could vote for Brexit, knowing what that would mean, and still negotiate something that would offset Brexit.

It's like saying I'm going to take a job in another city and then try to find a way to keep living in my old house. That's something I should figure out before I take the new job, not after I've accepted the job and have a start date.

The Leavers wanted Brexit in name only. They wanted out of the EU but a negotiated trade deal that would preserve the benefits of being in the EU. It was never going to happen. And so long as they refuse to accept that they have to be in the EU to access the benefits of the EU, they're going to keep floundering and they're going to keep trying to blame everyone else for their problem. There are no simple solutions here and they seem to think that one should be presented forthwith and the fact that it hasn't been presented forthwith means people are sabotaging them. Nope, it's just far more complicated than they're willing to accept.

Yes, @JDragon and I already discussed all of that about 2 years and 7 threads ago.

The question from the E.U (as it is from everyone else) to the Brits now is "what the hell do you people want to do next, besides the constant whining and finger pointing?"

 

[Teen Wolf]

 

[Not A Theist]

Brexit Party %

No kidding... I feel like 2% didn't quite realize what they were signing up for.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Yes, @JDragon and I already discussed all of that about 2 years and 7 threads ago.

The question from the E.U (as it is from everyone else) to the Brits now is "what the hell do you people want to do next, besides the constant whining and finger pointing?"

Maybe the UK government should have a plan about what Brexit meant before a referendum with a yes/no option on something which is rather complicated.

Brexit mess is on the fucking Tories.

 

[Arkain2K]

Maybe the UK government should have a plan about what Brexit meant before a referendum with a yes/no option on something which is rather complicated.

Brexit mess is on the fucking Tories.

Yes, we have thoroughly covered that too. If you were here from the start, you would see all of that (and more) repeated ad nauseum from v3 to v8. None of any of this is new, nor does your exasperated negotiating partner particularly cares whose fault it is. They just want you to move along.

Three years have now passed, enough blaming has been going around, we're now on v9, and there is a clear deadline as No Deal quickly approaches on the horizon. What the hell do you people want?

 

[JDragon]

It certainly is time to remind people of some stuff from 3 years ago.
All quotes between Q3-2016 and Q1-2017.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-EU-just-TWO-DAYS-announcing-pro-Brexit.html


2 days before Boris Johnson joined the out campaign he wrote an article encouraging people to stay in. Confirm once again all he saw was a chance to outs Cameron and take his place and it backfired on him

The German car industry has around 100 production sites in the UK. Will they continue to invest there without full UK market access to the EU?

German chief car lobbyist: "LOLno"

http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKBN12H0NW?il=0

Boris: losing German investments would be insanity

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/hurting-investment-germany-insanity-johnson-122619779--business.html

 

[JDragon]

What the hell do you people want?

You know the answer. They want to have their cake and eat it, too.

 

[Arkain2K]

You know the answer. They want to have their cake and eat it, too.

Unfortunately, Boris' cake already rotted in the sun around v4, when the back-pedalling began.

At this point, it's hard to tell who's more delusional, Boris or Corbyn.

Corbyn plans to call no-confidence vote to become caretaker PM
15 August 2019

Jeremy Corbyn has urged the leaders of the other opposition parties and Tory rebels to install him as caretaker PM in order to stop a no-deal Brexit.

If he wins a no-confidence vote in the government, the Labour leader plans to delay Brexit, call a snap election and campaign for another referendum.

But Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson said she would not support making Mr Corbyn prime minister.

She called him "divisive" and said he would not command MPs' support.

In speech on Thursday, she said her party would work with others to stop a no-deal exit but Mr Corbyn was not a leader "respected on both sides of the House".

Instead, she suggested Tory MP Ken Clarke or Labour's Harriet Harman could lead an emergency government to prevent a no-deal on the 31 October deadline.

She added that MPs should "stand and be counted" and try to pass legislation in Parliament to ensure the UK does not leave without an agreement with the EU.

Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said the SNP would "work with anybody at Westminster to try to stop Brexit, and avert the catastrophe of a no-deal Brexit."

"I think the thing for Jeremy Corbyn though is he has to finally and firmly come off the fence on Brexit and stop trying to equivocate and prevaricate," she said.

Downing Street said Mr Corbyn would "overrule the referendum and wreck the economy" if he became prime minister.

A No 10 spokesman said: "Jeremy Corbyn believes that the people are the servants and politicians can cancel public votes they don't like."

Mr Corbyn asked opposition figures and Tory rebels for their support in a letter on Wednesday, pledging that a government led by him would be "strictly time-limited".

He said he would call a no-confidence vote - which would require majority support - at the "earliest opportunity when we can be confident of success".

If he were to succeed in calling a general election - which would require the support of two-thirds of MPs - Labour would campaign for a second referendum with the option to remain in the EU, he said.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson said he wants a deal with the European Union, but insists the UK must leave the bloc by the end of October "do or die".

Also receiving the letter were Tory MPs Dominic Grieve, Sir Oliver Letwin and Dame Caroline Spelman, and Nick Boles, the independent MP who quit the Tory Party over Brexit.

Responding on Thursday, they said they were happy to support cross-party work to block no deal and meet Mr Corbyn and MPs from other parties in the coming weeks.

BBC political correspondent Tom Barton said the initial response from the other parties suggests Mr Corbyn probably doesn't have the numbers to get his plan through.

"There are plenty of MPs who say they want to stop a no-deal Brexit but getting them to agree on how to do it - that's a different matter altogether," he says.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-politics-49352250