International Brexit Discussion v9: The Last Extension
- Thread starter Arkain2K
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Or do so more episodes of 'The Thick of it' we could certainly use Malcolm Tuckers verbal mastery of violent sexual imagery to explain the current political impasse .
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Luxembourg PM's press conference - Snap verdict
That was extraordinary. Boris Johnson, the British prime minister, has just been humiliated by the leader of almost the tiniest country in the European Union.
We were expecting a joint, open-air press conference but, with a large crowd of anti-Brexit campaigners threatening to drown out Johnson, it was announced that the British PM was not going to take part (presumably because of the demonstration, although that has not officially been confirmed yet). Normally in these circumstances the polite thing to do is to re-arrange. But instead Xavier Bettel, the prime minister of Luxembourg, just went ahead anyway, effectively “empty chairing” his guest. At one point he even gestured at the space where Johnson was supposed to be.
And then Xavier just let rip. People often wonder what EU leaders say or think about Johnson in private. Well, now we know. The leave campaign was a pack of lies, Johnson’s talk of progress in the Brexit talk is unfounded, the UK still has not come up with any ideas about an alternative to the backstop. On and on he went, with particular emphasis on the point that the UK, not the EU, was to blame for the crisis. It was a “nightmare” for EU citizens, said Bettel. At several points he was loudly applauded by the protesters, because they felt he was articulating their anger.
Yesterday Johnson depicted himself as the Incredible Hulk. As the Telegraph’s Michael Deacon suggests, the reality could not be more different.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...08f9df5bdd5686#block-5d7f9dfd8f08f9df5bdd5686
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I can't even
Fucking embarrassment. Like Brexit in general tbh.
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From the Guardian
Luxembourg PM's press conference - Summary
Here are the main points from Xavier Bettel’s extraordinary press conference. (See 3.31pm.) The prime minister of Luxembourg was speaking in English, but it is not his first language, and so occasionally I have tidied up his syntax just so that it reads more clearly.
At this point, gesturing to the point where Boris Johnson would have been standing if he had joined the press conference, Bettel went on:
Now it’s on Mr Johnson – he holds the future of all UK citizens and every EU citizen living in the UK in his hands. It’s his responsibility. Your people, our people, count on you – but the clock is ticking, use your time wisely.
In this there was an echo of what Donald Tusk, the president of the European council, said when the EU granted a Brexit extension in April. “Please do not waste this time,” Tusk said. Many EU leaders think the UK has wasted this time.
At another point, in response to a question about a possible extension to the transition period, Bettel again said EU citizens needed certainty. He said:
The fact is our citizens want to have certainty. As long as they don’t know what is going to happen they don’t know what will be their own future ... This is a nightmare.
People would love to have clarity, they would love to know what is going to happen.
He said the only written text on the table at the moment was the existing withdrawal agreement.
One party, the Conservative party, decided to organise that referendum ...
Now people try to blame the others because we cannot find an agreement.
We did not decide to organise Brexit. It was a unilateral decision of the UK government. We have to accept the result.
But it is not now in a unilateral way that the UK government will decide its next relations with the EU.
We sit around the table. We have a withdrawal agreement. And this withdrawal agreement has been accepted by the UK government. I just want to repeat and remind [you] that Theresa May accepted the withdrawal agreement. So don’t make it that the European Union will be the bad guy, not accepting decisions that the UK proposes ...
These are homemade problems.
He also said that neither he, as a European leader, nor the commission, nor the EU27 as a whole were responsible “for the mess we’re in”.
So to speak about new delays, just to postpone things, is not in the interests of our citizens.
Bettel did not point out that Johnson led the leave campaign. But he did say there should have been a proper information campaign in the UK at the time of the referendum, so people had the facts.
Number 10 says the government will obey the law. But Johnson also says he would refuse to request an article 50 extension in any circumstances, even though the Benn act would make that a legal obligation, and Downing Street has not explained how these two apparently contradictory positions might be reconciled.
Luxembourg PM's press conference - Summary
Here are the main points from Xavier Bettel’s extraordinary press conference. (See 3.31pm.) The prime minister of Luxembourg was speaking in English, but it is not his first language, and so occasionally I have tidied up his syntax just so that it reads more clearly.
- Bettel accused Boris Johnson of creating a “nightmare” of uncertainty for EU citizens by failing to clarify what he wanted from Brexit. In his opening statement Bettel said:
At this point, gesturing to the point where Boris Johnson would have been standing if he had joined the press conference, Bettel went on:
Now it’s on Mr Johnson – he holds the future of all UK citizens and every EU citizen living in the UK in his hands. It’s his responsibility. Your people, our people, count on you – but the clock is ticking, use your time wisely.
In this there was an echo of what Donald Tusk, the president of the European council, said when the EU granted a Brexit extension in April. “Please do not waste this time,” Tusk said. Many EU leaders think the UK has wasted this time.
At another point, in response to a question about a possible extension to the transition period, Bettel again said EU citizens needed certainty. He said:
The fact is our citizens want to have certainty. As long as they don’t know what is going to happen they don’t know what will be their own future ... This is a nightmare.
People would love to have clarity, they would love to know what is going to happen.
- He complained that Johnson had not tabled firm proposals for an alternative to the backstop. “We need more than just words,” he said in his opening statement, referring to the need for a proposal in writing. And then, in the Q&A, he said:
He said the only written text on the table at the moment was the existing withdrawal agreement.
- He dismissed Johnson’s claim that significant progress has been made in the talks. When asked about this, Bettel replied:
- He mocked what was said in London about Johnson’s Brexit strategy, saying that he had “read in the papers a few days ago that it goes from big progress to [Incredible] Hulk to David Cameron proposing a second Brexit”.
- Bettel suggested that, if there were a no-deal Brexit, it would take years for the two sides to reach a subsequent agreement on trade.
- He said he was not confident that Johnson would be able to get any deal through the House of Commons.
- Bettel said any Brexit deal had to protect the EU single market and the Good Friday agreement.
- He said the UK alone was to blame for the Brexit crisis. He and other EU leaders would not take responsibility, he said:
One party, the Conservative party, decided to organise that referendum ...
Now people try to blame the others because we cannot find an agreement.
We did not decide to organise Brexit. It was a unilateral decision of the UK government. We have to accept the result.
But it is not now in a unilateral way that the UK government will decide its next relations with the EU.
We sit around the table. We have a withdrawal agreement. And this withdrawal agreement has been accepted by the UK government. I just want to repeat and remind [you] that Theresa May accepted the withdrawal agreement. So don’t make it that the European Union will be the bad guy, not accepting decisions that the UK proposes ...
These are homemade problems.
He also said that neither he, as a European leader, nor the commission, nor the EU27 as a whole were responsible “for the mess we’re in”.
- He said he would only back an extension of article 50 if it were to serve a purpose. He said further delay was not in the interests of EU citizens. He said:
So to speak about new delays, just to postpone things, is not in the interests of our citizens.
- He said the leave campaign lied during the referendum.
Bettel did not point out that Johnson led the leave campaign. But he did say there should have been a proper information campaign in the UK at the time of the referendum, so people had the facts.
- Bettel expressed disapproval at the hints from Number 10 that Johnson could if necessary break the law to ensure Brexit happens. When asked about that, Bettel just said:
Number 10 says the government will obey the law. But Johnson also says he would refuse to request an article 50 extension in any circumstances, even though the Benn act would make that a legal obligation, and Downing Street has not explained how these two apparently contradictory positions might be reconciled.
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The entire thing has been at a standstill for over a year. People either forget or just purposly ignore the cold hard facts.
Any deal, even an amazing one will be rejected by over 60 % of the house.
The only solution to Ireland is a hard border.
The EU are desperate for the entire thing to fail.
We are at the point now where the only likely outcomes left are;
break the law and dont ask for an extension, watch the entire british political system collapse becuase of it. Or to cancel the entire thing, and watch the british political system collapse because of it.
Quite frankly, the entire thing is an embarrasing stain the county will struggle to wash out.
To get sonething like this through, You need politicians that carry out the will of its people, not go against their wishes.
Any deal, even an amazing one will be rejected by over 60 % of the house.
The only solution to Ireland is a hard border.
The EU are desperate for the entire thing to fail.
We are at the point now where the only likely outcomes left are;
break the law and dont ask for an extension, watch the entire british political system collapse becuase of it. Or to cancel the entire thing, and watch the british political system collapse because of it.
Quite frankly, the entire thing is an embarrasing stain the county will struggle to wash out.
To get sonething like this through, You need politicians that carry out the will of its people, not go against their wishes.
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How is not asking for an extension a challenge to rule of law? Is he required to ask for one?
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lol this is insane. I just read up on this. So they passed a bill saying they can't leave the EU without a deal and now he's forced to ask for an extension. So if they never agree on a deal they will never leave the EU? If the EU ever stops granting extensions will the PM be breaking the law at that point?
I hope Boris doesn't ask for an extension.
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No, and I'm starting to think that's what Johnson actually hopes for : to annoy the EU so they won't grant an extension. It would solve all of BoJo's problems and would let him blame the EU for everything that might go wrong.
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Oh, but the EU has been calling this already. Juncker said today that the EU is never going to lose its patience.
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The problem with that last part is that its no longer the will of the people , it doesnt have any kind of legitimate mandate anymore if it ever really had
Half the people voted against it and now every poll that isnt dail mail shows the public are majority against it....and yet this shit rumbles on
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Well, its fair to say it was a really bad mistake in the first place. And i wish it never happened. But it did, and even if leave campaign built a campaign filled with unrealistic promises, false claims and lies. It doesnt change the fact that the vote took place and the UK voted to leave.
In all honesty, i am at the point now where id be happy if it just went away. Id rather it fail if it means the entire thing goes away. Ive had enough.
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Yes, but you need just one veto to block extensions. Macron has already been pretty vocal about being fed-up with Brexit negotiations. I don't think he's currently annoyed enough to pay the political consequences of such a veto, but it's still something that could happen.
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But its only a narrow majority that voted to leave and now in the harsh light of day years later its a vocal minority
Its like being catfished but instead of running off at first sight you are still forced at gunpoint to continue the date then fuck the mutant you ended up with at the end of the night !!
Id prefer it went away too ...revoke this shitstorm now , most of the pensioners who voted this through will be gone if theres a harsh enough winter this year anyway
