Crime BREAKING: Orlando Gay Night-Club Attacked (50 Dead, 50+ Hospitalized) Pt. 3

[dissolved]

PT 3 Discussion continued:

Live Feed:





PT 2 Link:

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/b...pitalized-pt-2.3266697/page-51#post-117696107

PT 1 Link:

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/b...lub-attacked-50-dead-50-hospitalized.3266459/

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

In for the updates.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Ok so what about the following examples:

Anti gay remarks in religious sermons

Nazi/ white supremacy marches/ rhetoric

Race/ religion sexual orientated motivated assaults

Political speaches with anti gay or racial undertones

What should we do? Should we ban whole groups of people over these things according to what a few say or do?

As Stefan Molyneux says in the video I posted, the problem is the social enforcement of cultural norms in a society that is the real issue. Hate groups like Westboro Baptist church are outliers in western society and their behavior is widely condemned by the larger society. Allowing large amounts of Muslims who come from Islamic societies where oppression against women and gays is the norm creates a cultural clash that must be overcome through cultural assimilation. The problem is leftists are defending cultures that oppress gays and women and making excuses for their poor behavior. Mass immigration and leftists groups prevent the assimilation into Western culture that is necessary in curbing the backwards cultural views of Muslims coming from oppressive Islamic societies.

 

[HereticBD]

Okay, so part of your solution is aggression. Toward who though? We've certainly done tons and tons of drone strikes. It hasn't stopped the terrorism. We've declared war twice. Hasn't stopped the terrorism. Not enough aggression? What else then? Where do we aim it?

At home.

 

[Still your boy]

Very much agreed I hate all religion but Islam is defiantly the most damaging to mankind

Are you sure about that?






We have christians who will be 100% Israeli no matter what...Who want the end of the world to come, who are hoping for Armageddon..Their wet dream is a nuclear war against the middle east.


and these people who high positions in the most power country in the world...The United States...They have a huge following which influences who is in office.


At least with Islamic Terrorist, the worst we can expect is suicide bombs/Mass Shootings.

 

[Coolidge]

I may be a brick wall, but you still have not answered the original question. How does ranting online about Islam solve the problem? What's the end goal? What is your solution to the problem?

I already had this discussion with other users, and less dishonest users, I might add.

 

[SRN]

It was mentioned on the older thread that most people never read the Quran. I think that's true, I encourage everyone to do so. This is an excellent site where you can read it. http://quran.com/

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Good job maintaining these threads @In The Name Of

 

[in the]

The last two threads have made it clear that Christianity is just as big of a culprit for this radical Muslim's action as Islam. Can't beat that logic.

 

[goldennirvana]

The desperation...







Doesn't blame Islam... blames "straight, cisgender dudes" LOL

 

[Brampton_Boy]

How do you stand up against an ideology?

Who do I take up arms against, or cast from my country?

Is there a grey area that allows for acceptance of moderate/progressive muslims?

Going back to a point I made earlier, "Taking a stand against islam" is gaining traction, and people have condemned it (deservedly or undeservedly) as an archaic, backwards religion that is not compatable with western society. But there isn't really a way to address that as an external actor - change has to come from within the muslim community, and even then, people who subscribe to extreme views and are predisposed to terrorism will not have a change of heart. Short of Mohammed coming down from the clouds and saying "Look Muslim bros, your doing it all wrong...", nothing is going to change.

All we can really control is whether we decide to hate or not. So yes, some people will find comfort in hating islam and its followers, exposing it for all of its "evils". However, hate begets hate - the more we hate them, the more "they" will hate us, and the vicious cycle will continue. I don't want to live that way.

 

[TheStruggle]

Islam defenders are out in full force because they can't handle a religion that is not Christianity being criticized despite the overwhelming amount of evidence that Racial Islam is terrible

 

[Fawlty]

Wow playing the dishonesty card? Seriously? Just correct me and say condemnation instead of apology.


Now read my post gains and replace worrds that mean apology with words that mean condemn and there you go.

Have you condemned capitalism today?

I did condemn the Iraq War, even while I was in the military. I'm pretty sure I would have condemned the Vietnam War. The subject of the recent going-on-decades of bullshit in the middle east can't even come up without me criticizing our choices and behavior there.

Christians don't have a very difficult time these days condemning terrible acts that are claimed in the name of its faith. At the very least you get a "he wasn't a real Christian" which is obviously shirking their responsibility but at least it's the floor of criticism rather than near to the ceiling. I don't want to hold up Christianity as the gold standard for the moral compass (far from it), but at least the needle guides to a fucking waypoint. I've been very patient and understanding with Islam at large throughout these last 15 years, waiting for people to come around in larger numbers, and it's not happening.

 

[mtron929]

How do you stand up against an ideology?

Who do I take up arms against, or cast from my country?

Is there a grey area that allows for acceptance of moderate/progressive muslims?

Going back to a point I made earlier, "Taking a stand against islam" is gaining traction, and people have condemned it (deservedly or undeservedly) as an archaic, backwards religion that is not compatable with western society. But there isn't really a way to address that as an external actor - change has to come from within the muslim community, and even then, people who subscribe to extreme views and are predisposed to terrorism will not have a change of heart. Short of Mohammed coming down from the clouds and saying "Look Muslim bros, your doing it all wrong...", nothing is going to change.

All we can really control is whether we decide to hate or not. So yes, some people will find comfort in hating islam and its followers, exposing it for all of its "evils". However, hate begets hate - the more we hate them, the more "they" will hate us, and the vicious cycle will continue. I don't want to live that way.

I replied to your other post but I don't know if you have replied or not. But there is a grey area solution that does not entail radical stupid solutions (e.g. just nuke them, deport all of them). That is, we can enforce a more strict policy on immigration/refugees from the Middle East. This way, the Muslims that are currently in the US are not affected by any of these policies whereas we exert a tighter control of new people from this area. It seems like you have a defeatist attitude in which if we cannot provide a solution that completely erases this problem, then there we should just give up.

 

[in the]

@Anung Un Rama we're back to parsing. Capitalism has brought freedom to people in ways never imagined before. Did it have a shitty side? Yes, but it evolved, because its tenets weren't set in stone or from God. Again, that's a faulty comparison. I never said all Muslims are to blame. I am saying that the doctrine of Islam (Quran/Sunnah) is to blame.

@Joe did you not read where I mentioned that Trump talked about OBL years before 9/11?

@Gandhi you'll notice that I never called Muslims out for their silence in that thread, not once. I don't think that really helps the situation.

@NHB7 I've read a good amount of the Islamic texts and I wish others would as well.
Quran
Sahih Bukhari
Sahih Muslim
Sira (biography of Muhammad)
After reading those, the notion that Muhammad was about peace can be dispelled as a myth.

@Fawlty not once did I ever take joy at this massacre, so fuck off with that butthurt nonsense. Trump is right that Muslim immigrants can pose a problem, and this will happen again in the future if we don't heed his warning. But you're trying to spin this on me because you can't attack Trump's idea.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

How do you stand up against an ideology?

Who do I take up arms against, or cast from my country?

Is there a grey area that allows for acceptance of moderate/progressive muslims?

Going back to a point I made earlier, "Taking a stand against islam" is gaining traction, and people have condemned it (deservedly or undeservedly) as an archaic, backwards religion that is not compatable with western society. But there isn't really a way to address that as an external actor - change has to come from within the muslim community, and even then, people who subscribe to extreme views and are predisposed to terrorism will not have a change of heart. Short of Mohammed coming down from the clouds and saying "Look Muslim bros, your doing it all wrong...", nothing is going to change.

All we can really control is whether we decide to hate or not. So yes, some people will find comfort in hating islam and its followers, exposing it for all of its "evils". However, hate begets hate - the more we hate them, the more "they" will hate us, and the vicious cycle will continue. I don't want to live that way.

This is more than an ideological issue. It is a cultural compatibility issue. The biggest problem is the mass immigration of people coming from backwards cultures in numbers too large to be able to effectively assimilate into the western culture. The problem is amplified when you have a disturbing number of people on the left defending the poor behavior of groups and tolerating their intolerance.

This is the reason why immigration has become such a big issue and why so many people are supporting someone like Trump who is in favor of slowing down immigration from Islamic societies.

 

[Thunderflash500]

Islam defenders are out in full force because they can't handle a religion that is not Christianity being criticized despite the overwhelming amount of evidence that Racial Islam is terrible

It's not radical Islam. It's just Islam. The religion wants gays dead. Now if they want to ignore the religion that's fine. But it's not radical. It's just Islam.

But yes, it's white people's fault. We want guns to defend ourselves, so we are bad. Not the ones killing innocents. It's just white people.

 

[mtron929]

This is more than an ideological issue. It is a cultural compatibility issue. The biggest problem is the mass immigration of people coming from backwards cultures in numbers too large to be able to assimilate. The problem is even more amplified when you have a disturbing number of people on the left defending these groups and tolerating their intolerance.

This is the reason why immigration has become such a big issue.

I think the left has to understand that there are plenty of people who are not racists or xenophobic that take a level-headed approach to all of this. As an example , if all of a sudden, relationship between the US and Germany deteriorate to such an extent that we regularly have German terrorists (not all Germans!) wreaking havoc in the US soil, then we would want to cut down on immigrants from Germany. It is just simple math.

 

[M3t4tr0n]

As Stefan Molyneux says in the video I posted, the problem is the social enforcement of cultural norms in a society that is the real issue. Hate groups like Westboro Baptist church are outliers in western society and their behavior is widely condemned by the larger society. Allowing large amounts of Muslims who come from Islamic societies where oppression against women and gays is the norm creates a cultural clash that must be overcome through cultural assimilation. The problem is leftists are defending cultures that oppress gays and women and making excuses for their poor behavior. Mass immigration and leftists groups prevent the assimilation into Western culture that is necessary in curbing the backwards cultural views of Muslims coming from oppressive Islamic societies.

So all leftist are making excuses for muslims poor behavior? Are all muslims behaving this way? Also islam isn't the only religion that condemns homosexuality. I'm no fan of religion in general but I'm not one to generalize whole groups of peoples for what a few do.

 

[IDL]

So apparently his father who had migrated from Afghanistan hosted a youtube channel where he talked about Afghani politics and his support for the Taliban in region conflicts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...sidency/?postshare=2441465759392185&tid=ss_tw

So, he was connected and politically active with his homeland, which at face value isn't all that unusual since that is where he's from, but his son may have been alienated or something being connected to two places. Maybe more connected to his fathers homeland moreso than his new one.