Boxing vs Muay Thai as a Striking Base in MMA

Chagaev said:
This dude was also an Olympic gold medalist in amateur boxing, no?
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Came to dispute it but you beat me to it. That guy is 1 in a billion that's great at both boxing and muay thai. Always someone trying to fit a narrative
 
tasticles said:
Came to dispute it but you beat me to it. That guy is 1 in a billion that's great at both boxing and muay thai. Always someone trying to fit a narrative
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Actually, he's not. There's been many Thais who've had decent careers in both Muay Thai & boxing, and even if you narrow it down to Muay Thai fighters who've won world titles in boxing you still have about 50 or so fighters, and 7 fighters who were champions in both sports.
https://akathailand.com/news/muay-thai-champions-thailand-became-world-champions-boxing/
 
SHAZAM said:
Jesus Christ and how many wrestle boxers have got their ass beat? MT has been more successful but all depends on their 2nd discipline. Also, rules favor wrestle boxers. They take away Muay Thai and BJJ weapons to protect wrestle boxers. Mostly to protect wrestlers. But it weakens MT as a whole which allow for arguments like this one.
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They take away the strongest wrestling weapon (head butts -- either from standing clinch or the ground, the person in control against the cage or on top on the ground is in a perfect situation for head butts). The reason they take this away is obvious -- looks brutal and leads to cuts, shortening fights. But its still taken away.

Knees to the head on the ground would be another big plus for wrestlers (side control and north-south). The only people stuffing wrestlers shots are other wrestlers, so its not a worry for wrestlers against BJJ and strikers -- again, this was taken out because it looks brutal, but would definitely help wrestlers.

The gloves hurt both wrestlers and BJJ'ers equally, and help both MT and boxers equally (protects their hands).

Stands ups hurt BJJ and wrestlers equally (they're there to avoid Royce-Shamrock 2 where the wrestler gets on top and controls for 30+ minutes).

The soft ground (as opposed to concrete or even wood) help BJJ vs judo and wrestling, because throws are much less damaging.

What rules hurt BJJ and help wrestlers? I can't think of any off hand.
 
TGArthur said:
This. His kicks are what really set up the finish IMHO. Those kicks were really nasty.
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the catching of Till's kicks made him hesitate to throw them anymore too. So Darren became a boxer, which made the fight easier for Jorge
 
GordoBarraBJJ said:
They're not Muay Thai fighters. Many say Muay Thai but very few are even close to being Muay Thai.
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Is it the same kind of thing like boxing coaches in mma? Where many mma boxing coaches claim to be coaching boxing but don't know much about it. Is it the same with Muay Thai, where many muay thai mma coaches are simply teaching a crude interpretation of it?

Or are you referring to something different?
 
Blayt7hh said:
Yeah, two whole examples. Case closed then.

Any of you heard of Jon Jones?
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Jones is quite unorthodox and arguably fights more like a traditional martial arts fighter--though he never formally studied karate, kung fu, etc. Between his odd style and otherworldly physical characteristics, he's not a good example at all.
 
NoSmilez said:
Why would you throw a body shot when you can clinch and knee. It's almost the same distance and you can generate consistent hard strikes with knees.
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Punching to the body is very effective and damaging if it is done properly. Knees to the body and clinchwork are also great but you shouldn't toss body punches out the window.




Boxing can also help to create angles:


 
RAFI BOMB said:
Punching to the body is very effective and damaging if it is done properly. Knees to the body and clinchwork are also great but you shouldn't toss body punches out the window.




Boxing can also help to create angles:


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In Muay Thai punches to the body aren’t effective since you can knee. How many body knockouts do you see in thaiboxing? It’s not common.
 
mkt said:
50 year old Mercer vs. prime Bonjasky. Wow, that sounds like a good test.
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Dude, did you even read the post I quoted? If you're not going to understand the context then keep your mouth shut.
 

Relevant ?

The pixel that gets KO'd the fuck out is Pacquiao
 
OCEANCIDAL said:
You're right, there are a ton of adjustments that would have to be made. I was just pointing out what is probably the biggest weakness for someone who takes more of a boxing stance in MMA. I also included that the boxer needs to, "learn how to mix it up" which is an understatement, but that was meant to cover what you just addressed.

My bias is in favor of Muay Thai. That's what I started training first and what I still favor when striking, so I'm certainly not trying to downplay its effectiveness. I just noticed that when I went from doing more kickboxing sparring to focusing on MMA, a lot of the tools that I had been using against boxers were more difficult to implement because of the differences in range, stance and takedown threat.

A Muay Thai fighter's stance has to change even more than a boxer's stance does, when transitioning to MMA. Stand straight up so that you can fire off teeps and roundhouses and you're going to be getting blast doubled through the mat pretty easily. The Thai plum is borderline nonexistent in modern MMA. Put a Thai boxer in the ring with a straight boxer and yeah, it's going to be elbows, knees and tosses. Put them in MMA with the takedown threat and give them both a little of of grappling knowledge though, and it turns into more of a dirty boxing situation with occasional knees and much more rarely, you'll see a few elbows. Mostly what we're looking at in the UFC today is a boxing heavy approach, with bits and pieces of Muay Thai thrown in.
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I agree with you. I do think that the Muay Thai toolbox is still being underused in MMA - not because the context won't allow for it, but because individual fighters will have to bring it too MMA and prove its effectiveness. We've already seen a dramatic upsurge in the use of standing elbows. Seems like every other event, a fight turns on one well-placed elbow. The standing grapple changes completely when one fighter knows how to create opportunities for and place knees and elbows during clinch situations. The MMA community is seeing this now, but just 5-8 years ago, standing elbows were a rarity. The mentality was: greco rules the clinch, period.
 
I
Better Every Day said:
Why do you think that Rose vs. Joanna sheds any light on the issue of the value of boxing as a striking base? As far as I know, neither woman has a boxing base.

Joanna has a Muay Thai base.

Rose began with Taekwondo and karate, and then trained kickboxing, but has no particular boxing background of which I am aware.
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Sherdog logic: if they punch they are a boxer
 
Many examples of boxing beating muay thai in MMA and vice versa. It comes down to either style being great for MMA, just depends on the fighter and how he uses it.
 
boxing is pretty good for hand work but muay thai rounds it up with elbows, knees, clinch, mentality and that stuff i would say.
 
Boxers know to generate more power. Shifting their weight, knowing how to generate maximum power from the ground
 
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