Boxing Mitt Work

[TheMachinegun12]

You'd be right if you are talking about a beginner. He's not. He's been doing this longer than some of the posters here have been alive, doing work in a lower stance helps you learn to develop balance in a taller stance.

Also, he's actually not that low to the ground, here look at this:



Bazooka is doing the same thing here, and this guy was the Glory middleweight champion and employed a fairly dutch style. What @shincheckin is doing is completely fine even from a kickboxing stand point, he is simply allowing himself to get leverage into his punches, he probably won't stand that low in an actual fight, if he were doing it all the time even lower I'd agree there would be a bit of an issue, but for this to be one specific exercise, I don't think it's enough to cause any significant problems, it's not like he's shadowboxing and trying to throw high kicks from a low stance

Valtellini's way of fighting resembles nothing of a dutch style. If you want to see real dutch style go watch for example El Geubli or Andre Brilleman fights, those people were trained by the founders of kickboxing in Holland.

So the post was weird off the bat, and sounded alot like spacetime, and was coming from a random new profile that has barely made any posts, and this weird random spacetime sounding dude is supporting spacetime. Deeper into the spacetime continuum we dive!

Well 'advanced' muay thai guy please enlighten me. You gotta have more than 1000 posts on sherdog to be knowledgeable about fighting right ? Your stance is way to wide in the video, an opponent can kick as hard as he wants with an inside leg kick and you can't block it.

 

[shincheckin]

Valtellini's way of fighting resembles nothing of a dutch style. If you want to see real dutch style go watch for example El Geubli or Andre Brilleman fights, those people were trained by the founders of kickboxing in Holland.



Well 'advanced' muay thai guy please enlighten me. You gotta have more than 1000 posts on sherdog to be knowledgeable about fighting right ? Your stance is way to wide in the video, an opponent can kick as hard as he wants with an inside leg kick and you can't block it.

Tell spacetime I said hello

 

[spacetime]

You are going to end up with a straitjacket in a mental institute saying - I see spacetime... spacetime.".. - THERE IS NO Spacetime". - Yes, there is. He's a troll I tell you" Are you spacetime???

First signs of madness, seeing things that aren't there.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Valtellini's way of fighting resembles nothing of a dutch style. If you want to see real dutch style go watch for example El Geubli or Andre Brilleman fights, those people were trained by the founders of kickboxing in Holland.



Well 'advanced' muay thai guy please enlighten me. You gotta have more than 1000 posts on sherdog to be knowledgeable about fighting right ? Your stance is way to wide in the video, an opponent can kick as hard as he wants with an inside leg kick and you can't block it.

So you're just looking for an argument. Got it.

 

[TheMachinegun12]

So you're just looking for an argument. Got it.

It's not about being a pro or not, or having practiced muay thai for a long time. I see a mistake and I explain what is wrong. If you think what he does is correct then by all means train in a real gym in Holland and try it out. It looks to me this part of the forum is a echo chamber so I guess I stay out of it.

I get what you are saying though about training specific things (in MMA) but i don't agree with it in stand up fighting because you can combine things just as easily.

 

[TheMachinegun12]

50% you say........maths not your strong point........

Art of 8 limbs and he's only using 2 does not make 50% he's neglecting 75% of his Muay Thai weapons.......

No but given his stance he can also throw elbows from that position. You can't throw kicks or knees from that stance, as it is way to wide (and vulnerable to low kicks) thus eliminating 50%.

 

[TheMachinegun12]

I've done exactly that. There was a vid posted where Floyd was practicing a leap-in single powerjab with his elbows flared. I warned people not to copy what he was doing because he was trying something experimental/odd isolated, but everyone wanted to pretend like I was saying that Floyd didn't have a proper grasp of boxing, lol

---

And a hearty lol to people saying you can't train different components at different times. Do we have to be doing MMA training only, at all times? Clearly the way to get sharp is to train some things separately. Why are you so worried? It's not like he's given up training other aspects of MT.

A knee specialist will train knees more, because that's what gets him those wins. An kicking wizard will throw more kicks in training (as well as in the ring) and often train only kicks for long stretches. It makes sense because that's what they use to get those wins as a specialist, so that's what they spend more time on. I don't know anyone who is 100% all-around, everyone who is any good becomes a specialist at something or another.

You are confusing MMA with standup fighting. In standup fighting it can be done, go watch fighters from Holland in the 80s as I mention above (guys like brilleman, el geubli and others ). If you dont know how to incorporate it into your training than that is on you.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

It's not about being a pro or not, or having practiced muay thai for a long time. I see a mistake and I explain what is wrong. If you think what he does is correct then by all means train in a real gym in Holland and try it out. It looks to me this part of the forum is a echo chamber so I guess I stay out of it.

I get what you are saying though about training specific things (in MMA) but i don't agree with it in stand up fighting because you can combine things just as easily.

Vasyl Lomachenko regularly does this:



This looks ridiculous, but it works because it's done with a specific goal in mind. It's not something you should ever do in a boxing match but for a temporary exercise it works. You should fight how you train, you're quite correct, but I think you're exaggerating how low his stance actually is.

It's not that the forum is an echo chamber, it's that most of the people here know that you're only getting one video clip and it's removed from context.

I think you're assuming that nobody here knows about the Dutch style, but I'm in frequent contact with Lucien Carbin. We all know how the dutch stand and what techniques they use, everybody does. It's just not really that relevant to a single clip of a fighter training boxing, and I'm assuming you've not seen his fights. He doesn't fight like that, he does however have very good balance, which training with lower stances helps.

 

[William Huggins]

Tell spacetime I said hello

Looking at this White belt that just started posting in the striking forum and the topics he posts about, I think you might be right....

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

You are confusing MMA with standup fighting. In standup fighting it can be done, go watch fighters from Holland in the 80s as I mention above (guys like brilleman, el geubli and others ). If you dont know how to incorporate it into your training than that is on you.

Sure it CAN be done, but that doesn't change the fact that most if not all of the greats use training time in segments for different aspects, at least some of the time. Most don't train kicks at the same time as clinch training at the same time as running and jumping rope.

If you want to, that's 1000% fine, but you shouldn't start scolding someone else if their trainer wants to break it up a little more because that's pretty petty seeing as how most gyms do structure timed segments for different exercises and drills.

It's so silly how people were acting paranoid about a boxing session robbing someone of their kicking ability as if you MUST do everything all at the same time, when most accomplished fighters and trainers DON'T teach or train that way.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Sure it CAN be done, but that doesn't change the fact that most if not all of the greats use training time in segments for different aspects, at least some of the time. Most don't train kicks at the same time as clinch training at the same time as running and jumping rope.

If you want to, that's 1000% fine, but you shouldn't start scolding someone else if their trainer wants to break it up a little more because that's pretty petty seeing as how most gyms do structure timed segments for different exercises and drills.

It's so silly how people were acting paranoid about a boxing session robbing someone of their kicking ability as if you MUST do everything all at the same time, when most accomplished fighters and trainers DON'T teach or train that way.

Yup, training separately and focus on specific areas is why Thailand produces multiple dual champions in both boxing and muay thai, and fighters with at the very least success in one sport while being world class in another area.

In fairness I'm not sure if Machinegun is saying that you shouldn't train boxing without low kicks or if he's saying that adopting more of a boxing stance during boxing training isn't a good idea, I don't completely disagree with the latter but it depends on the fighter and coach, you can't have a 1 size fits all approach.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

I also think I should point out that that stance is pretty wide by boxing conventions as well. It's pretty good if you're worried about wrestling or takedowns. It probably gives a lot more leverage in some clinches, possibly, but it's not a textbook boxing stance.

It's kind of a karate stance to be honest, which can work really well with boxing sometimes for some people, especially in MMA like Conor does.

There are Thais in pro MT who use very bladed and seemingly vulnerable-to-kicks stances and still make it work for them

TS has been having a lot of success with what he is doing in competitions

 

[TheMachinegun12]

Yup, training separately and focus on specific areas is why Thailand produces multiple dual champions in both boxing and muay thai, and fighters with at the very least success in one sport while being world class in another area.

In fairness I'm not sure if Machinegun is saying that you shouldn't train boxing without low kicks or if he's saying that adopting more of a boxing stance during boxing training isn't a good idea, I don't completely disagree with the latter but it depends on the fighter and coach, you can't have a 1 size fits all approach.

Yes I am meaning the latter. And again I am tried to give the perspective of how I have been taught kickboxing from a teacher of the first hour in Holland, and could not let to grin a bit and give a reaction when I saw this guy having 'advanced' over and over in his profile and then looking at this particular video.

The guy in the video can test how low his stance is ( and maybe post another video):

1) Do the same exercise, and implement kicks throughout the combinations (not necessarily finishing with kicks ). if he stays balanced his stance is alright
2) The trainer gives him (inside) low kicks during a combination, so that he blocks, and continues right on with his punches. In general this also helps staying attentive of the opponent attack back at you, instead of going all out without regard of anything (not saying that I have seen this in the video).

On the Lomachenko video, I have seen him doing even weirder stuff with playing concentration games. It would be interesting to know if he would have been just as good if he implemented only traditional boxing methods.

 

[TheMachinegun12]

Looking at this White belt that just started posting in the striking forum and the topics he posts about, I think you might be right....

Comical how you think that more posts = more fighting skills/knowledge. Judging from your childish response there is a reasonable chance that I have spent more time in the gym than you have ever been in contact with fighting but thats another story.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Yes I am meaning the latter. And again I am tried to give the perspective of how I have been taught kickboxing from a teacher of the first hour in Holland, and could not let to grin a bit and give a reaction when I saw this guy having 'advanced' over and over in his profile and then looking at this particular video.

The guy in the video can test how low his stance is ( and maybe post another video):

1) Do the same exercise, and implement kicks throughout the combinations (not necessarily finishing with kicks ). if he stays balanced his stance is alright
2) The trainer gives him (inside) low kicks during a combination, so that he blocks, and continues right on with his punches. In general this also helps staying attentive of the opponent attack back at you, instead of going all out without regard of anything (not saying that I have seen this in the video).

On the Lomachenko video, I have seen him doing even weirder stuff with playing concentration games. It would be interesting to know if he would have been just as good if he implemented only traditional boxing methods.

Coming at it from the perspective of both being a coach and my conversations with Carbin, concentration can't be overstated. I think Lomachenko would have been great even with the more traditional methods, but if these games help him pay more attention not only in the fight but in training, then that's going to go very far.

 

[TheMachinegun12]

Coming at it from the perspective of both being a coach and my conversations with Carbin, concentration can't be overstated. I think Lomachenko would have been great even with the more traditional methods, but if these games help him pay more attention not only in the fight but in training, then that's going to go very far.

Sure there are alot of ways concentration can also be trained. By doing sparring with a more experienced fighter that punishes (does not have to be hard) your mistakes when you get reckless for example. This is hard for Lomachenko since there are no better more experienced fighters than him so I guess training in that particular way would not be useful.

Another example (as i have posted in another thread i believe) would be telling your pupil to keep eyecontact while doing pad drills (as a sidenote this also trains your peripheral vision for possible incoming highkicks), and when that eyecontact is lost, concentration was gone at that particular moment. Those are examples of traditional training methods where concentration can be trained for a less experienced fighter than Lomachenko in my opinion.

It does emphasizes that what you said of there being no one size fits all for any kind of training.

 

[Cheap Shot]

high kick from low stance can be done too lol. im not sure the name of it, MMA guys do it quite a bit, swing the head low to one side and kick high. you know which one im talking about?

I immediately thought of Condit’s high kick on GSP. Not sure if that’s what you mean, but it was the first thing that came to mind.

 

[William Huggins]

Comical how you think that more posts = more fighting skills/knowledge. Judging from your childish response there is a reasonable chance that I have spent more time in the gym than you have ever been in contact with fighting but thats another story.

Definitely Spacetime.....

 

[aerius]

Well 'advanced' muay thai guy please enlighten me. You gotta have more than 1000 posts on sherdog to be knowledgeable about fighting right ? Your stance is way to wide in the video, an opponent can kick as hard as he wants with an inside leg kick and you can't block it.

This is how I know you're full of shit. You don't even notice where his weight distribution is because you're to dumb to understand how a stance works.

 

[TheMachinegun12]

This is how I know you're full of shit. You don't even notice where his weight distribution is because you're to dumb to understand how a stance works.

<removed>