Box squat questions

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Hendersonfan119, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. Hendersonfan119

    Hendersonfan119 Yellow Belt

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    When I do box squats I go down below parallel like you would a regular squat. Then I watched these clips on youtube.

    YouTube - DeFranco's Training - Corey Smith 500 Squat

    YouTube - DeFrancosTraining.com - HS linebacker box squats 500!

    YouTube - DeFrancosTraining.com - Another HS kid box squats 500!


    They all go to just parallel.

    I am looking to increase my explosiveness for wrestling so how high should the box be?



    My 2nd question is on this link ( Build Explosive Strength: How to Perform Box Squats | StrongLifts.com ) it says that you have to do box squats explosively and you cant do them slow. In the links above they are slow, I do mine slow when I am increasing weight. Am I not going to gain explosive power by going slow, should I lighten the weight and do them quickly?
     
  2. c1991kit

    c1991kit White Belt

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    Hi, I've got no real experience in pure wrestling but I do train it in MMA, I also very often powerlift and that extra core body strength is a massive advantage. Your hips and lower back will blast out of any hold! Deadlifts, Stiff legged deadlifts and squats are the key.

    But from my experience and everyone who has advised me about squats (including a powerlifter and pro bodybuilder) over the past years say box squats, especially with say your body weight or more, are very bad for your back. You probably won't do something immmediately, but it'll be cumulative and after a year or something you may be permanently injured.

    I'd suggest you mix your leg training with partial squats and parallel squats, personally I found that partial squats are the best way to avoid injury and build power the fastest. Depends on the weight you're lifting. I'm about 82kg/180lbs something, I squat 220kg partially. If its a weight you think you parallel squat comfortably then you could box squat it, I'd just stick to parallel though.

    But hey, someone else could disagree with me. Everyone has their own methods and ideas. I just think that they are a really bad exercise and shouldn't be done at all, if its working for you and you're without injury you know best.
     
  3. Hendersonfan119

    Hendersonfan119 Yellow Belt

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    if you bounce of the box or just relax on the box you will hurt your back. If you do box squats correctly you wont/
     
  4. deckingdutchman

    deckingdutchman Orange Belt

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    The aim isn't to move a light weight quickly, it's to explode onto a heavy weight and move it as fast as you can (this won't actually be fast if it's heavy enough). Look at that first video, look how much he explodes of that box.

    Not experienced enough to say anything concrete about box squats from experience, but I'm guessing that the box squats being bad for your back concept is similar to saying that squats are bad for your knees. They're not if you use good form.
     
  5. Eric Brown

    Eric Brown Crusty old bastard

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    It is?

    Box squats are used primarily on dynamic effort days when powerlifting. Rotated in only occasionally on max effort days. On DE days the goal is actually to move the weight as fast as possible. Sort of the point.

    Box squats have a variety of uses, so the speed will change depending on what use you are putting them to.


    Box squats being bad for your back is bro-science at its finest. When you squat onto the box, the torso moves closers to vertical. While this increases the compressive force on the spinal column, this is the angle at which the spine can actually handle the most force. It also reduces the shear on the lower back, particularly the L4-L5 vertebral joint.
     
  6. Denbob99

    Denbob99 Orange Belt

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    It's not gonna mess your back if you stay tight. Most people box squat to parallel or maybe an inch below parallel
     
  7. Dr Boondigga

    Dr Boondigga Yellow Belt

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    Did everyone assume that C1991kit is a troll and ignore his response? If your not a troll C1991kit, read the faq.
     
  8. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    Box squats have a number of uses, and can be done a variety of ways. The constants are: you have to stay tight, this is important in all squats, but even more important in box squats since otherwise the muscles aren't helping to suppot the weight. And you want to lift as explosively as you can. That doesn't mean the lift will necessarily be fast, just as fast as you can make it with whatever weight you're using. For most people, just getting stronger is the most important part of getting more powerful.

    Things like box height can be adjusted for variation, and may depend on flexibility, goals, past issues with the hips etc. In your case, the deeper the better, as long as it doesn't lead to technique breaking down.
     
  9. rckvl

    rckvl Blue Belt

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    Tell that to Westside, they live on the box and it has never caused an injury. Partial squats are also a great way to develop knee issues.
     
  10. MASShole

    MASShole Get it?

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    I'm around parallel for box squats.
     
  11. Keosawa

    Keosawa Black Belt

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    I go by the Dave Tate and Westside philosophy of box squatting, which is to go to parallel but not necessarily below parallel. Yes, I know, it's sacrilegious to say "don't go below parallel" and "squat" in the same sentence, but it seems to make sense if the box squat is used as a glut-ham strength-building accessory exercise.
     
  12. VoodooPlata

    VoodooPlata Brown Belt

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    Assuming I do the box squat for explosiveness, which is the case, should I use the maximal weight with which I can stand up (assuming that the explosiveness needed just to get off the box is what's being trained) or should I use a sub-maximal weight so that the movement is as fast as possible? This is very relevant for me right now.
     
  13. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    If you're making the movement as fast as possible, then you're not going to have much if any load. If you meant aiming for the movement being as powerful as possible, then you'd be describing dynamic effort work...as to whether it makes sense to include it depends on a number of variables, like what sort of routine are you usings, how strong are you, what you want to develop the power for, whether there are other exercises that would work better, and so on.

    ...After looking over your log, I'd say you're probably better off just focusing on getting stronger, and that will get you more explosive. If weights are feeling slow it's more likely due to (1) They're heavy (2) Your technique is off, (3) You're aren't recovered properly, than a lack of explosiveness. That said if you want to experiment with dynamic effort work, or other explosive exercises like box jumps, broad jumps, squat jumps, go ahead and see how it affects you. But if you do decide to do something like that, start with something moderate, like 5x2 of one of the above, once a week.
     
  14. Hendersonfan119

    Hendersonfan119 Yellow Belt

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    just wondering why is it better to go parrallel instead of going lower?
     
  15. VoodooPlata

    VoodooPlata Brown Belt

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    Out of those three I'm 90% certain it's door #1. But as a rule of thumb, how long do you think it's acceptable for a 5RM squat to take? The fifth of the set, starting the count from the beginning of the ascent takes me something like five seconds to lockout and I'm pushing and pig-grunting the entire way. Red in the head. Eyes squeezed shut.

    It seems like you're saying that box squats aren't the thing for someone in my specific situation - what would be your recommendation as to when to do box squats? Are they for sport-specific purposes only?
     
  16. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    If it's a 5RM, then it doesn't matter how long it takes, as long as you get all 5 reps. Taking a long time to complete a rep just means that the amount of force you're producing is close to the minimum needed to move the bar.

    Box squats can be good for (1) Teaching or Reinforcing sitting back during the squat (2) controlling depth, so someone can hit a specific depth, and (3) reducing how much stretch reflex contributes at the bottom of the squat, putting additional emphasis on the posterior chain. It's the additional emphasis on the posterior chain, and the beginning of the movement is the reason some people use them for developing power.

    If and when you do box squats would depend on your routine, and whether you find their inclusion to be beneficial. I think if you're following a routine that allows it, it's good to do at least a couple different types of squats. Box squats could be one of these types.
     

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