Bobby Hoffman, Mikhail Ilyukhin, and other forgotten fighters

[europe1]

but then was hit with one of the top 5 hardest knees in mma history in the rematch.

That was like a proto-Joachim Hansen intercepting knee.

Only had one fight, but as an early UFC

According to fight finder he has two fights, one a loss in Brazil during Jungle Fights 1. Funny, I could have sworn as well that he only had one fight.

 

[Ancient Warrior]

According to fight finder he has two fights, one a loss in Brazil during Jungle Fights 1. Funny, I could have sworn as well that he only had one fight.

Interesting. I had no idea he had that fight.

 

[europe1]

Interesting. I had no idea he had that fight.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/1/Mark-Schultz-Where-Is-He-Now-15062

According to this article he claimed that it was supposed to be a Pro-Wrestling bout. Which is a bit sketchy since the rest of the card was all MMA.

Another intresting paragraph from the same article.

So he decided to stick with coaching, though BYU dropped wrestling in 2000. Schultz, a newfound devotee of Brazilian jiu-jitsu, had trained with Rickson Gracie disciple Pedro Sauer and fallen in love with the sport. Ironically, he was one of the few wrestlers in the early years of MMA who fully understood submission grappling instead of discarding it by the wayside as an afterthought.

“Rickson Gracie and me had a match in the BYU wrestling room in 1992. He made me tap out twice and told me I was the toughest guy he’d gone against. Rickson was the best fighter I’d ever seen. He still may be.”

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

Never a horrible idea to bump these old threads and breathe fresh new life into the Page 1 of the main board.

By the by, Bobby Hoffman, in addition to being completely insane and probably the sloppiest successful fighter I can think of off the top of my head, also played in the NFL. It was for the Browns in the 90's mind you, but I'm pretty sure that NFL experience = A-Level athlete. So far as I know he was the first and one of the most successful guys to make the switch from the gridiron to fighting, although a lot of that had to do with him being a natural born psychopath and street fighter for the entirety of his life. The dude legit made Tank Abbott look like a saint.

He also deserved the W over Mo Smith.

 

[HHJ]

@gono btw hasnt forgotten.

 

[gono btw]

@gono btw hasnt forgotten.

No CTE for Daddy Gono!

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[gono btw]

I always liked Eugene Jackson. He wasnt the best. The way he schooled Alger was awesome. He was guy who tried to be an all around fighter back then.

 

[gono btw]

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/1/Mark-Schultz-Where-Is-He-Now-15062

“Rickson Gracie and me had a match in the BYU wrestling room in 1992. He made me tap out twice and told me I was the toughest guy he’d gone against. Rickson was the best fighter I’d ever seen. He still may be.”

.

Damn... Hickson is such an ATG liar,lmao... like all of them Gracies (Helio branch), by the way...

In Vale Tudo > He kept denying in the 1990s that Rei Zulu was his toughest fight and that he was not about to quit on his stool. Then,last year, in an interview, he finally acknowledged it.

In BJJ > he always said that his toughest opponent was Equada.

Spoiler: Hickson - Interview

From FreeFight magazine (Japan)

This interview took place soon after Rickson's defeat of Takada in Japan on October 11, 1997.

FreeFight
What was your toughest match ever?
Rickson
I really haven't had a tough match, just matches that last longer than others.
FreeFight
What was your longest match?
Rickson
Definately Equada. He was 6'7" and at least 340 lbs.
FreeFight
How long did that fight go and how did you finish him.
Rickson
It went fifty minutes. I triangled him and he passed out. Very tough guy.

 

[sherdogwantedtonamemekiki]

Pat Audinwood

 

[pankrat]

We need more of this.

Japan - Kiuma Kunioku
America - Mickey Burnett
Europe - Daniel Tabera

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

We need more of this.

Japan - Kiuma Kunioku
America - Mickey Burnett
Europe - Daniel Tabera

I was gonna jump on this harder, but I decided to do some digging to refresh my memory on Kiuma as I'd only ever seen him get wiped out in Pancrase and Hero's and go to a boring draw with Sherk. So I hit Fightpass...

I'm twelve fights in from the bottom of the Kioku results and he's yet to post a win. Had one draw in there and the rest have consisted of him getting guillotined, taken to school by Delucia thrice, and just generally scrambling well but never coming close to winning or finishing his opposition. On the surface, that makes him look pretty bad. Then you consider he was 176 pounds fighting HW's and LHW's like Tanner, Yamada, Pete Williams, Bas, and Mezger and he was like 20 when he started and things start to not quite look so clear. I'll continue on this journey to see if my initial impression of him was accurate and I'll get back to you but based on what I've seen so far he's looking more like a Matsui-level fighter than anything.

Time will tell and I won't pass judgment till I've investigated further...

 

[gono btw]

Yoshida is the man. TK is the man. It irritates me when people refer to him as a can.

Finally found ya, mate...

Spoiler

 

[pankrat]

I was gonna jump on this harder, but I decided to do some digging to refresh my memory on Kiuma as I'd only ever seen him get wiped out in Pancrase and Hero's and go to a boring draw with Sherk. So I hit Fightpass...

I'm twelve fights in from the bottom of the Kioku results and he's yet to post a win. Had one draw in there and the rest have consisted of him getting guillotined, taken to school by Delucia thrice, and just generally scrambling well but never coming close to winning or finishing his opposition. On the surface, that makes him look pretty bad. Then you consider he was 176 pounds fighting HW's and LHW's like Tanner, Yamada, Pete Williams, Bas, and Mezger and he was like 20 when he started and things start to not quite look so clear. I'll continue on this journey to see if my initial impression of him was accurate and I'll get back to you but based on what I've seen so far he's looking more like a Matsui-level fighter than anything.

Time will tell and I won't pass judgment till I've investigated further...

Kiuma Kunioku was a lightweight - not even a big one - who has a case for having beat many of the best fighters of his time at any weight class
from Japan: Sudo, Kondo, Funaki, Nakao, Kikuchi, Takase, Momma, Takeuchi..
and America: Frank Shamrock, Sherk, Mezger, Shonie Carter, Marquardt..

Regardless of judges veredict in close fights, Kunioku was up there. He is the first two division champion in MMA if im not mistaken. Would have been a top contender in Shooto or UFC as well

Yet you hardly ever hear about him, at least on these boards

Here he is at 20 y.o. fighting HW champion Bas Rutten, who comments on it


Kunioku was not taken to any school by De Lucia despite the 20lbs disadvage in '99 btw.

I'd suggest to check his fights with skilled fighters close his size as Shonie Carter or Akira Kikuchi. good match with Masakatsu Funaki . also vs Misaki but just for enjoying Misaki.

Better than Matsui imo, way more accomplished, and more forgotten as well.
I can see the resemblance but I'd say Kunioku was more composed in the feet, with better hands and quicker shot, more able to dictate the fight. didnt make as many stupid mistakes nor high risk moves
Kunioku clearly lacked of finishing tecniques but was pretty well-rounded. I think he'd have given Pat Miletich - or anybody his size in America - a very tough fight. *english isnt my first language btw

Not that I give much credit to FightMatrix but they rank Kunioku top3 during three straigh years (1999-2001).

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

[YT]-tN2v3N_Fcg[/YT]

Didn't really duck him. Just forfited the match due to injury.

And there are a ton of unknown guys. Especially fighters in Japan and Eastern Europe whom reacieved little attention even in their own time.

Really intresting when you watch old events and hear the commentators talk about future mega-stars like Eugene Jackson or Jay R Palmer.

i'll never forget Jay R. Palmer fighting in SuperBrawl in Hawaii. 1 when he taunted Danny Bennet and got KO'd by a kick, rematched him and got KO'd by a kick again. and the other fight was when he held onto Maurice Corty's wrists while stomping him into oblivion.

 

[europe1]

i'll never forget Jay R. Palmer fighting in SuperBrawl in Hawaii. 1 when he taunted Danny Bennet and got KO'd by a kick, rematched him and got KO'd by a kick again. and the other fight was when he held onto Maurice Corty's wrists while stomping him into oblivion.

Yeah and that was a really good fight too.

Jay R Palmer really must be MMA first busted prospect. He looked unstoppable in his first 10 fights or so and then got deaded twice by Danny Bennet. Really interesting pioner of MMA.

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

Kiuma Kunioku was a lightweight - not even a big one - who has a case for having beat many of the best fighters of his time at any weight class
from Japan: Sudo, Kondo, Funaki, Nakao, Kikuchi, Takase, Momma, Takeuchi..
and America: Frank Shamrock, Sherk, Mezger, Shonie Carter, Marquardt..

Regardless of judges veredict in close fights, Kunioku was up there. He is the first two division champion in MMA if im not mistaken. Would have been a top contender in Shooto or UFC as well

Yet you hardly ever hear about him, at least on these boards

Here he is at 20 y.o. fighting HW champion Bas Rutten, who comments on it


Kunioku was not taken to any school by De Lucia despite the 20lbs disadvage in '99 btw.

I'd suggest to check his fights with skilled fighters close his size as Shonie Carter or Akira Kikuchi. good match with Masakatsu Funaki . also vs Misaki but just for enjoying Misaki.

Better than Matsui imo, way more accomplished, and more forgotten as well.
I can see the resemblance but I'd say Kunioku was more composed in the feet, with better hands and quicker shot, more able to dictate the fight. didnt make as many stupid mistakes nor high risk moves
Kunioku clearly lacked of finishing tecniques but was pretty well-rounded. I think he'd have given Pat Miletich - or anybody his size in America - a very tough fight. *english isnt my first language btw

Not that I give much credit to FightMatrix but they rank Kunioku top3 during three straigh years (1999-2001).

Update: I'm 22 fights into his Fightpass collection (it's not stored in chronological order so it jumps around a bit) and he still hasn't won a fight yet. 4 draws and the rest are losses. I see absolutely nothing special about him save his cardio and a quick shot (he managed not to get guillotined so often as his career progressed, which is good to see). No finishing ability, no punching power, and a truly Japanese Pancrase fighter's knack for ALWAYS rolling for leg locks from any position that he never submits anyone with. This guy, when I see him win, will win via decision guaranteed. He's a more athletic Matsui. That's all I can give him right now. And he looks good in a pair of pink trunks. When he was rockin' the flow he had a pretty cool look goin' on, I guess.

The Shonie fight was okay, but again nothing special was shown in that one and Shonie deserved to win instead of getting a draw. Nate The Great has a draw against him that should've been a win too. Man, was Nate young then too! Haven't watched the other recommended ones, but they're coming. I'll keep everyone posted to how this turns out...

But seriously, I don't think Kionoku can finish a sandwich!

 

[pankrat]

Update: I'm 22 fights into his Fightpass collection (it's not stored in chronological order so it jumps around a bit) and he still hasn't won a fight yet. 4 draws and the rest are losses. I see absolutely nothing special about him save his cardio and a quick shot (he managed not to get guillotined so often as his career progressed, which is good to see). No finishing ability, no punching power, and a truly Japanese Pancrase fighter's knack for ALWAYS rolling for leg locks from any position that he never submits anyone with. This guy, when I see him win, will win via decision guaranteed. He's a more athletic Matsui. That's all I can give him right now. And he looks good in a pair of pink trunks. When he was rockin' the flow he had a pretty cool look goin' on, I guess.

The Shonie fight was okay, but again nothing special was shown in that one and Shonie deserved to win instead of getting a draw. Nate The Great has a draw against him that should've been a win too. Man, was Nate young then too! Haven't watched the other recommended ones, but they're coming. I'll keep everyone posted to how this turns out...

But seriously, I don't think Kionoku can finish a sandwich!

jajaja true
iirc he finished two guys in the same night for the Pancrase WW tittle though, oddly enough

Kunioku was a better fighter than Matsui, man. Certainly better standup (in the Shonie or Nate fights actually shows some good head movement and right counters); hard leg kicks; and knew how to mix it up with a quick shot.
No punching power to hurt MWs not that bad for his size btw, dropped Kikuchi with an uppercut. Others didn't want to trade with him.

He was pretty good securing top position and I'd say rather conservative when punches in the ground allowed, which also made him at least more efficient than Matsui.
You rarely saw him giving up top position going for leglocks, he often ended rounds on top, yea rolled for leglocks to generate scrambles sometimes and did it well. I think he'd be a tough one for UFC LWs back then.

Dont know what fights u r watching, he is an old school guy with 50+ fights only in Pancrase.

Good wins on Masakatsu Funaki, Frank Shamrock, Yuki Kondo or Guy Mezger under early Pancrase ruleset, always in size disadvantage. A high level skill is required to achieve this - or just to take Bas Rutten to decision with 30lbs on you - good looks on pink trunks dont get it done.

With close fists allowed Kunioku beat Marquardt in their 3rd fight. Nate is a long time top10 ranked MW just two years younger than him btw

I dont care much if draw or whatver; Kunioku's fights with Carter, Sherk, Kikuchi - available free in dailymotion - Marquardt or Genki Sudo show he was in that league. Yeah he doesn't finish this caliber of fighter but they were the top, it doesnt make him average. I guess you can look back and asses Okami the same for lack of finishing ability in the elite.

Kunioku's game wasnt particularly flashy but did you find Sherk or Miletich especial? It cant be said they are forgotten thats for sure

I see absolutely nothing special about him save his cardio and a quick shot (he managed not to get guillotined so often as his career progressed, which is good to see)!

lol he got guillotined like twice in his year debut at 20 and never again. are u not a bit too harsh on the guy?

 

[TCE]

Andre 'The Chief' Roberts is another one. Check him out. Dude was massive and had like a 16 - 2 record.

 

[gono btw]

Andre 'The Chief' Roberts is another one. Check him out. Dude was massive and had like a 16 - 2 record.

Spoiler

 

[LilNicky95]

Don’t forget about “Dirty” Bob Schrieber