BMI and living to 100

[gameclucks]

It's medical fact that people living to 100, generally have a BMI of lower than 30, and have maintained a lower BMI throughout their lives.

Some here argue that this isn't true, that in fact overweight/obese individuals can live just as long, if not longer than those with an appropriate BMI range (studies vary, but mostly agree on 18-29 being within range).

I would hope somebody could provide evidence showing those with a higher BMI are just as, if not more likely to make it to 100.

It's obvious that having a BMI of 31 will have little statistical difference than somebody with a BMI of 29; no proof is needed. (6' guy would be 220lbs vs 229lbs.)

It's when you take a statistical difference with a population of individuals for example that are 6' and 195lbs (26BMI is within range) vs those that are 295lbs (40BMI not within range) you will see that it is very very unlikely that the larger group will have any members making it to 100, whereas the lighter group/country/region will have centennials.

I'm genuinely interested in seeing studies of centennials, and would love to see research showing the current scientific opinion is wrong, so if there is some, please provide.

 

[MMAwisdom**]

Imagine if the fat people who got old actually lived a healthy lifestyle.

Anyone can reach 100 years old, as long as you live a healthy lifestyle (and not getting hit by a bus helps too).

cancer would barely excist if we all ate healthy and didn't fuck ourselves up.

 

[Pride23]

so the guy that is the same height but 100lbs lighter and in shape will be more likely to make it to 100, astonishing.

 

[gameclucks]

so the guy that is the same height but 100lbs lighter and in shape will be more likely to make it to 100, astonishing.

It's very obvious to me, you, and most people that adding on 100lbs of bulk will make it less likely you'll make it to 100years old.

Those in the strength and conditioning forum disagree.

 

[shunyata]

While it's correct that obesity is not going to help you with longevity.........


BMI is utter bullshit. It does not account for muscle mass in any way and therefore it can be tremendously inaccurate for anyone who exercises in a way that causes them to maintain some muscle. I'm not talking about weight lifters per se, but just healthy people who you would visually descibe as skinny, yet could have a BMI of 25-26 or so.

According to the BMI index, at 6'4" and 207 lbs, you would be overweight (25.2).

 

[JSN]

most of the controversy is just confusion. BMI is a population statistic that isn't intended to be applied to individuals. Yes, a health professional might advise you to get your BMI to 25 (or whatever is considered optimal), but that's because they deal in large numbers as well, meaning that if they can tell all their patients/clients to get to the optimum population BMI (and they get them there), the most probable outcome is longevity, low instances of diabeetus, lower instances of heart disease, etc.

 

[miaou]

Those in the strength and conditioning forum disagree.

What a bunch of ***s those guys are.

 

[Seriously-Dead]

Some here argue that this isn't true, that in fact overweight/obese individuals can live just as long, if not longer than those with an appropriate BMI range (studies vary, but mostly agree on 18-29 being within range).

This is a stupid argument. Of course a person with an overweight BMI can live to 100, but statistically the likelihood is way less than an underweight individual. That's the nature of BMI, it's a statistical tool and that's about all it's good for.

Who is trying to argue this??

 

[miaou]

Lulz!

TS edited his OP to delete this part:

In fact, I don't know of a single case of somebody with a BMI of 31+ making it to 100, and I'd even be interested in just seeing the one exception to the rule.

 

[gameclucks]

This is a stupid argument. Of course a person with an overweight BMI can live to 100, but statistically the likelihood is way less than an underweight individual. That's the nature of BMI, it's a statistical tool and that's about all it's good for.

Who is trying to argue this??

not unanimous, as there were a few that posted once or twice, but pretty nearly everyone else that responded in the strength and conditioning forum.

 

[Seriously-Dead]

Well were you trying to argue that it's impossible for a person with a BMI +30 to live to 100, or were you saying that's its just way way way less likely? Because there's a biiiiig difference.

Also, what are we considering here? Did this hypothetical person live 90% of his life with a BMI +30 and then drop lower at the end of his life? I could see that happening. Or did he/she die with a BMI +30? I can't really imagine a person older than 90, on the tail end of their life, with a BMI +30. Losses in bone density, muscle mass and other tissues would make that pretty tough to maintain, considering BMI doesn't differentiate between types of mass.

So many things make this a shitty argument...

 

[gameclucks]

1) Well were you trying to argue that it's impossible for a person with a BMI +30 to live to 100, or were you saying that's its just way way way less likely? Because there's a biiiiig difference.

Also, what are we considering here? Did this hypothetical person live 90% of his life with a BMI +30 and then drop lower at the end of his life? I could see that happening. Or did he/she die with a BMI +30? I can't really imagine a person older than 90, on the tail end of their life, with a BMI +30.

1) Saying it's unlikely you'll make it to 100 with a BMI of 31 or greater. I am also stating that this is true even if you are well muscled.
2) The studies show that those living to 100 generally kept their BMI below 30 throughout their lives. Specifically in Okinawa, they kept theirs between 18 and 22, which I should point out is lower than in other studies, some showing that the mid to upper 20's is also an acceptable/good range.
Studies show this is unlikely, but I'm sure there are cases that people could have a high BMI early in life, but then get their health/weight in order later in life and still make it to 100. I'd assume those people were just above 31 though, and probably very few (if any at all) were at a statistically higher range of say 50+ that linemen/strongmen and the like are typically at.

 

[belph]

What a bunch of ***s those guys are.

God I hate those F******

 

[gameclucks]

Obesity is an interesting topic that gets people heated.
If you say a smoker will live less long, people are not emotional about it.

Makes me wonder if it's just about our appearances that make people heated, or if it's something else unique to obesity.

Would people be upset if I quoted research showing that African Americans and tall people don't make it very often to 100? Those with older parents, or with parents that died early doesn't show on the surface, so is that more OK to talk about?

Those are all things that factual lower life expectancy, but cannot be helped.
I am thinking it's not offensive, whereas our size is a choice, and maybe people are offended because they think that I am saying their choice is wrong.

 

[JSN]

This is a stupid argument. Of course a person with an overweight BMI can live to 100, but statistically the likelihood is way less than an underweight individual.

actually, groups with a mean BMI that places them slightly overweight tend to live longer than slightly underweight, believe it or not. I think this has been pretty well controlled for, too. That said, What BMI places as perfect weight even are really effing skinny.

 

[Seriously-Dead]

actually, groups with a mean BMI that places them slightly overweight tend to live longer than slightly underweight, believe it or not. I think this has been pretty well controlled for, too. That said, What BMI places as perfect weight even are really effing skinny.

I think you're referring to this study: The relationship between body weight and mortality: a quantitative analysis of combined... - Abstract - UK PubMed Central

The correlations in that study were very weak, and anything lower than 23 or higher than 28 had increased mortality rates. The correlations were so weak that they barely worked for men, and they couldn't even apply BMI as a predictor for female mortality. You also have to keep in mind that this was only a study done on mortality and BMI, and that it had nothing to do with centenarians (people living past 100).

1) Saying it's unlikely you'll make it to 100 with a BMI of 31 or greater. I am also stating that this is true even if you are well muscled.
2) The studies show that those living to 100 generally kept their BMI below 30 throughout their lives. Specifically in Okinawa, they kept theirs between 18 and 22, which I should point out is lower than in other studies, some showing that the mid to upper 20's is also an acceptable/good range.
Studies show this is unlikely, but I'm sure there are cases that people could have a high BMI early in life, but then get their health/weight in order later in life and still make it to 100. I'd assume those people were just above 31 though, and probably very few (if any at all) were at a statistically higher range of say 50+ that linemen/strongmen and the like are typically at.

You may have a point in the end and it doesn't just apply to BMI. I read a few studies this morning, and all seem to point to an optimal basal metabolism for longevity that is correlated with overall size (height and weight). The optimal range of height for longevity seems to be around 158cm-165cm for men, at least among the Sardinian centenarians (Okinawian's are quite small too, as our Nicoyans - both of which have large centenarian numbers). If you used the Blue Zone studies as a model to predict who would live the longest, without a doubt being shorter and smaller is a strong predictor.

IGF-1 activity is used as a predictor of longevity in lots of animal models. IGF-1 is a central piece of the growth pathway and it's activity is reduced in shorter and smaller individuals. It's also a predictor of basal metabolism, since it regulates cell growth and replication - which translates into the regulation of telomere damage and the decay of genetic material. It also downregulates the activity of FOXO, which is a central molecule in fixing damaged DNA. This theory has been one of the few that has stood up to statistical analysis in explaining why women live longer than men. The fact is we all start off as one cell, and the more cell divisions you go through the more it compromises your initial genetic material.

I'd be really reluctant to say that high BMI individuals (+30) are likely to live to 100, mainly because I can't picture a scenario where having a high BMI isn't accompanied by an increase in IGF-1 and cell replication, regardless of if it's fat of muscle. That said, I don't think BMI is the best way to predict mortality or longevity past 100.

 

[miaou]

I'd be really reluctant to say that high BMI individuals (+30) are likely to live to 100, mainly because I can't picture a scenario where having a high BMI isn't accompanied by an increase in IGF-1 and cell replication, regardless of if it's fat of muscle. That said, I don't think BMI is the best way to predict mortality or longevity past 100.

I'd personally be really reluctant to say ANY individual is likely to live to 100! Simply because, even in the so-called "blue zones", the chances of it happening are extremely low (like well bellow 0.1% low).


SD, this was already discussed in some length in f13.

Take a look at these three posts:

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/64118983-post87.html

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/64128177-post116.html

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/64130853-post125.html

 

[miaou]

To give an actual comment to this:

I'd be really reluctant to say that high BMI individuals (+30) are likely to live to 100, mainly because I can't picture a scenario where having a high BMI isn't accompanied by an increase in IGF-1 and cell replication, regardless of if it's fat of muscle. That said, I don't think BMI is the best way to predict mortality or longevity past 100.

Obesity/insulin resistance results in cells being unresponsive to IGF-1 (IGF-1 binds to the same RTK receptor as insulin does). So obesity (the metabolic syndrome in general) is actually related to the accumulation of FOXO proteins in the cells.

 

[Seriously-Dead]

To give an actual comment to this:

Obesity/insulin resistance results in cells being unresponsive to IGF-1 (IGF-1 binds to the same RTK receptor as insulin does). So obesity (the metabolic syndrome in general) is actually related to the accumulation of FOXO proteins in the cells.

FOXO accumulates in the cell because the growth pathways (Insulin, Akt, IGF-1 and Pl3-k) add phosphates onto the FOXO protein which inhibits it from entering the cell nucleus and actually performing it's transcriptional activity on DNA. So yes, FOXO accumulates in an insulin resistant cell, but it doesn't actually perform what it's supposed to do. That's why you have to actually look at the transcriptional activity of FOXO to see if it's doing it's job or not, and not just at cellular concentrations.

I'll read your posts in the other thread when I get some spare time, probably not until tomorrow or the next day though.

EDIT: I should also be specific, I'm talking mostly about FOXO3. FOXO1 is different.

 

[miaou]

FOXO accumulates in the cell because the growth pathways (Insulin, Akt, IGF-1 and Pl3-k) add phosphates onto the FOXO protein which inhibits it from entering the cell nucleus and actually performing it's transcriptional activity on DNA. So yes, FOXO accumulates in an insulin resistant cell, but it doesn't actually perform what it's supposed to do. That's why you have to actually look at the transcriptional activity of FOXO to see if it's doing it's job or not, and not just at cellular concentrations.

You are correct in stating that an "activated" Akt (through the insulin/IGF-1>PI3K>Akt pathway) phosphorylates the FOXO proteins, thus "inhibiting" their action.

The thing is, in insulin resistance, the entire PI3K/Akt pathway is inhibited, which in turn lifts Akt's inhibition on FOXOs. So FOXOs are active in an insulin-resistant cell.


Here, read this (it mentions FOXO proteins, including FOXO3, indeed accumulate in the nucleus):

Akt phosphorylates the forkhead box class O (FOXO) transcription factors 1, 3, and 4 and inhibits their nuclear transport (71, 76) (Fig. 1I). Under condition of muscle atrophy, including insulin resistance (84), the deactivation of Akt results in the nuclear accumulation of FOXO factors, which in turn induce the transcription of MAFbx and MuRF1 leading to an increase in protein degradation. In addition, FOXO proteins activate the auto****ocytic program, thereby coordinating organelle removal with the breakdown of macromolecules (47, 95).

Article: Metabolic benefits of resistance training and fast glycolytic skeletal muscle