Blood testing questions

[FlexingTiger]

How much blood is needed to go through blood testing and is the procedure really that traumatic? Why does it cost so much? Is night of drug testing eventually the final stand? If it's not that big of a deal I assume they'll want to do blood tests right before and right after the fight and all throughout the camps. That's the only way to clearly make sure no one is fighting with an unnatural advantage. With ways of cheating like blood doping I assume they have to do more tests than just blood testing and they might need to remove more blood for testing which might rule out night of drug testing. Who knows?

 

[ZuffaExecutive]

I believe an article I read it was 350 for urine test and $500 for a blood test.As far as the amount probably not much,

It would probably cost in tests alone not the price of handlers etc for 2 people full random blood testing over an 8 week period about 10k dollars

 

[BrazilianDude]

I believe an article I read it was 350 for urine test and $500 for a blood test.As far as the amount probably not much,

It would probably cost in tests alone not the price of handlers etc for 2 people full random blood testing over an 8 week period about 10k dollars

Do they have to fly someone to the city to do it? That might be mandatory for their chain of custody. If so, costs would go up a lot.

 

[ZuffaExecutive]

Do they have to fly someone to the city to do it? That might be mandatory for their chain of custody. If so, costs would go up a lot.

It would depend on who you used really.

If I remember correctly Vada charged 40k for 2 people full random testing.

 

[FlexingTiger]

It would depend on who you used really.

If I remember correctly Vada charged 40k for 2 people full random testing.

So do they need bags of blood or just a couple drops? And is testing through vada the way to go or is that a waste of money? If it costs 40k why don't they just build a better program? Do you think the UFC is doing this the right way and to the best of their abilities?

 

[PivotPunch]

I don't think you can take blood right before the fight you have to do it a few days before
you don't need bags but more than a few drops enough that you can't take it right before a fight some people get dizzy if you take blood from them and it certainly affects your performance.
They also need enough for a B sample if necessary so they need enough to test 2 times

 

[dim_]

They take about 3ml x 2 of blood from memory, but i would need to check. (Certainly not enough to affect your performance )

Cost, it varies hugely, the $300 for urine and $500 for blood is based on a few people seeing an article that had a printout from the LA lab, but having contacted the labs and usada direct, charges vary depending on customer and what agreement is in place.

heres the charges from Australian Anti Doping as a guide
http://www.asada.gov.au/about/fees.html

you will need to convert back into US dollars but as a base you are looking at:

around $1000 for full screen urine with basic blood profile
but then add on additional costs for Epo, Cera, Hgh, Insulin, chuck on another grand for Carbon isotope ratio test

Then add on the tester and chaperone hourly rate, plus travel and accomadation

And yes, the tester (collecter) and Chaperone are employed by a third party WADA approved collection agency and they are responsible for collecting the samples and then transporting them personally to the relevant lab.

Basically:
Testing body be it NSAC, UFC, Vada etc contact Lab
Either they or the lab contact the collection agency
Collecting agents x 2 fly out to the targets location, collect samples
Collecting agents then travel to the lab
Lab Analyses the samples and feeds results back to testing body

Youre looking at Lab costs which vary dependant on what you are testing for, plus travel, accomadation and hourly rate for the collectors

the testing body are only involved at the very beginning and the very end of the process, and during the process samples are just numbered, so the lab never know whos samples being analysed etc.

 

[PivotPunch]

isn't there some stuff you can't see in the blood as well as in urine? At least with THC metabolites you need a urine sample so it's always blood + urine and not blood exclusively

 

[Matt Hutchings]

This is from USADA's website:

During the blood collection process, a number of vacutainer tubes of blood could be drawn, but keep in mind, less than one tablespoon of blood will be drawn. After the relevant vacutainer tubes are filled with blood, the BCO will label each tube with the corresponding sample code number for the security bottles, confirming with the athlete that each tube was labeled appropriately.

The full processes of both blood and urine are here: http://www.usada.org/testing/sample-collection-process/

 

[dim_]

Just double checked, most sports its 3ml (twice) so 6ml, about half a tablespoon

this compares with "blood bags" for blood doping purposes which are generally 250ml and 500ml

 

[FlexingTiger]

I don't think you can take blood right before the fight you have to do it a few days before
you don't need bags but more than a few drops enough that you can't take it right before a fight some people get dizzy if you take blood from them and it certainly affects your performance.
They also need enough for a B sample if necessary so they need enough to test 2 times

You think that amount of blood would greatly affect the performance of the fighters? I think that's the only way to go though. They need to find a way to drug test right before and right after.

 

[FlexingTiger]

Just double checked, most sports its 3ml (twice) so 6ml, about half a tablespoon

this compares with "blood bags" for blood doping purposes which are generally 250ml and 500ml

Yeah so before and after the fight is the way to go!

 

[Degen Gambler]

I heard they take 2-3 gallons of blood

 

[dim_]

6ml of blood will have absolutely no impact on a fighters performance, hell, i know of cyclists that have taken a 250ml bag out on the eve of a race and been "surprised" when they won the next day.

you lose more than 6ml from a cut

 

[dim_]

In the words of the Great Tony Hancock

A pint? Have you gone raving mad? [...] I mean, I came here in all good faith, to help my country. I don't mind giving a reasonable amount, but a pint? Why, that's very nearly an armful!

 

[FlexingTiger]

Thanks!

 

[PivotPunch]

You think that amount of blood would greatly affect the performance of the fighters? I think that's the only way to go though. They need to find a way to drug test right before and right after.

Ok it appears to only be 6ml but I think they still shouldn't do it the day of the fight it probably won't make a big physical difference but I'm sure it affects some fighters mentally some people aren't comfortable with getting blood drawn.

But they don't need to do it the day of the fight 1 or 2 days before is enough if someone takes steroids a day befoe the fight then they will fail the post fight test at least with CIR testing the only way they pass if there's only the ratios being looked at if they test for sysnthetic testosterone I can't imagine that you will test negative unless you are on undetectable steroida and then it doesn't matter anyway when you egt tested

 

[Matt Hutchings]

I heard they take 2-3 gallons of blood

Ah so Cain was administering a WADA Blood Test on Bigfoot!

 

[mmafansince93]

How much blood is needed to go through blood testing and is the procedure really that traumatic? Why does it cost so much? Is night of drug testing eventually the final stand? If it's not that big of a deal I assume they'll want to do blood tests right before and right after the fight and all throughout the camps. That's the only way to clearly make sure no one is fighting with an unnatural advantage. With ways of cheating like blood doping I assume they have to do more tests than just blood testing and they might need to remove more blood for testing which might rule out night of drug testing. Who knows?

The procedure is no more traumatic then any other time one needs to have blood taken, seriously?

It costs so much because they are using different testing procedures to test for PED'S including HGH and peptides, as well as synthetic testosterone in some cases, not just the less effective T/E ratio.

Fight night testing is the least effective testing due to the various drugs that are quick to clear and easily cycled with days or weeks of the test.

Blood doping is making a big comeback due to the improved methods of detecting EPO. Old school blood doping never really went away.

The real issue is Insulin use in athletics. It is the not often spoken about dark secret, as PED testing has improved and decreased the use of other drugs. Insulin, which may be the most powerful PED of all, cannot be tested and it is used in moderate and excessive levels by any and all athletes while training.

The only way to effectively minimize the use of most PED'S is too randomly test in AND OUT of Competition. That means when random fighter is not even in contract to fight he gets a surprise visit from a Tester... Random testing will stop the athletes who have a little larceny in their heart. That's all you can do. THE true Pro's have advisors, protocols, and drugs that are way ahead of the normal curve.

 

[ViKiNGDE79]

one tiger top tube is 8.5mL, you can get 5 tests per tube (5 test meaning you can test for 5 different substances). One tube is not much blood.

Just double checked, most sports its 3ml (twice) so 6ml, about half a tablespoon

this compares with "blood bags" for blood doping purposes which are generally 250ml and 500ml