Blasphemy ‘is no crime’, says Macron amid French girl’s anti-Islam row

[Bald1]

Something about 'When it comes to Islam, freedom and truth are incitement' and then when I pointed out you liked a quote by a tolerant muslim you stated that he wasn't mainstream. So is mainstream Islam Intolerant, again it depends where.

Apostasy is incitement in many Muslim communities. Calling old Mo a pedophile warlord is incitement. Those are basic examples of freedom from religion and the truth about their prophet. Isn't this thread about blasphemy not being illegal in France? And that a reformer has to state the obvious is a dead giveaway that there's a problem. When 50% of UK Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal there is more of a problem with being intolerant within Islam than anywhere else. Does that mean all of Islam is intolerant? No. Quranists and Sufis are generally more open to accepting different ideas than Sunnis.

 

[MVelsor]

It is unhinged. That math doesn't add up.

Lawrence v. Texas (2003), 539 U.S. 558, was a landmark decision of the U.S. Supreme Court in which the Court ruled that American laws prohibiting private same-sex activity between consenting adults are unconstitutional. The Court based its ruling on the notions of personal autonomy to define one's own relationships and of American traditions of non-interference with private sexual decisions between consenting adults. The 6-3 ruling invalidated the laws of 14 states.[1][2][3][4]

https://www.usatoday.com/amp/7981025

AP | April 21, 2014

BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) — A dozen states still have anti-sodomy laws on the books ten years [Ed: 15+ now] after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled they are unconstitutional.

The Supreme Court ruled in Lawrence v. Texas in 2003 that it is unconstitutional to bar consensual sex between adults, calling it a violation of the 14th Amendment. Houston police arrested two men for engaging in a sexual act in petitioner Lawrence’s own home. The court ruled that consenting adults have the full right to engage in their conduct without intervention from the government.

Yet last year, police in East Baton Rouge arrested men for attempted crimes against nature using the anti-sodomy law in a sting operation that caused a national outcry. The district attorney wouldn't bring charges, saying the law was unenforceable.

This led Rep. Patricia Smith, D-Baton Rouge, to file the bill that would repeal Louisiana's anti-sodomy law, saying it would make the system fairer and more efficient.

"We don't need inefficient laws on the books," she said. Her fellow representatives, however, disagreed and voted 66-27 on April 15 to keep the law in place.

 

[MVelsor]

It's a bit of a mindfuck that there are still so many of those religious types in the US. They're definitely not the norm in western Europe.

For Comparison (1791 vs. 2003):

The Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen (French: Déclaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen de 1789), set by France's National Constintuent Assembly in 1789, is a human civil rights document from the French Revolution.

Influenced by the doctrine of natural right, the rights of man are held to be universal: valid at all times and in every place, pertaining to human nature itself. It became the basis for a nation of free individuals protected equally by the law.

Inspired by the Enlightenment philosophers and writers, the Declaration was a core statement of the values of the French Revolution and had a major impact on the development of liberty, freedom and democracy both in Europe and worldwide.

The following 1791 penal code did not enforce Christian morality; there were, for example, no prohibitions against consensual same-sex activity between adults (this being the first Western code of law to decriminalize such conduct since Classical Antiquity). It was presented to the Constituent Assembly stating it "would only punish true crimes, not the artificial offenses condemned by superstition."[1][2][3][4][5]

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Apostasy is incitement in many Muslim communities. Calling old Mo a pedophile warlord is incitement. Those are basic examples of freedom from religion and the truth about their prophet. Isn't this thread about blasphemy not being illegal in France? And that a reformer has to state the obvious is a dead giveaway that there's a problem. When 50% of UK Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal there is more of a problem with being intolerant within Islam than anywhere else. Does that mean all of Islam is intolerant? No. Quranists and Sufis are generally more open to accepting different ideas than Sunnis.

Ok, so conservative Islamic communities are less tolerant, I can agree with you on that. As far as the Sunnis go, aren't Bosnians and Albanians Sunnis? Aren't those countries the most secular in the muslim world? How can you say they are less accepting of different ideas.

 

[Bald1]

Ok, so conservative Islamic communities are less tolerant, I can agree with you on that. As far as the Sunnis go, aren't Bosnians and Albanians Sunnis? Aren't those countries the most secular in the muslim world? How can you say they are less accepting of different ideas.

Most Albanians will say they're Albanians first, X religion second. As for Bosnians? I'm not informed enough to comment. Are we going to play the game where we pretend that exceptions to the rule are the norm? As in pointing to a population of less than 5 million and pretending they represent over 1.8 billion people?

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

"That necessity is separate from the criticism of religion. The law is clear: we have the right to blaspheme, to criticise, to caricature religions. The republican order is not a moral order … what is outlawed is to incite hatred and attack dignity,” Macron added."

 

[The ScorpioN]

God =/= religion =/= God

God =/= God

 

[Jim Braddock]

Pedo worshippers going after teenage girl on social media. Everything checks out.

"Afterwards, Mohammed Moussaoui, the new head of the CFCM( French Council for the Muslim Faith), said criticism of Islam had to be accepted and no remarks justified death threats. “We have to accept all the debates and refuse all violence,” Moussaoui wrote."


worth noting

Abdallah Zekri, general delegate of the French Council for the Muslim Faith (CFCM), told French radio: “This girl knows exactly what she has done … they who sow, reap.” Zekri added that the teenager’s comments were not covered by freedom of expression but were insulting and provocative.

Worth noting.

Muslims talking from both sides of their mouth?! I’m not surprised.

This, insults are one thing. Attacks or threats are another. Surprised Macron did this. I am actually pretty Shocked. .

macron is quite possibly gay and went into business for himself.

 

[Islam Imamate]

"That necessity is separate from the criticism of religion. The law is clear: we have the right to blaspheme, to criticise, to caricature religions. The republican order is not a moral order … what is outlawed is to incite hatred and attack dignity,” Macron added."

Meanwhile, in the same country in 2005

In 2005, the Girbaud case attracted a lot of media attention in France. The subject of argument was a billboard of Marithé François Girbaud, a brand of women’s clothing. The billboard - 40 metres long by 11 metres wide - was placed on a building on the Avenue Charles-de-Gaulle in Neuilly-sur-Seine in March 2005. The poster depicted a parody on the Last Supper by Leonardo da Vinci and was a wink to the novel The Da Vinci Code by Dan Brown. The apostles and Christ were replaced by women wearing clothes by Marithé and the only man of the group was the person on Christ’s right side. The Da Vinci Code expounds the theory that on the painting Mary Magdalene is placed in this position. A hand holding a dove, the traditional symbols of the Father and the Holy Ghost, figured between the women’s legs.

L‘Association Croyances et Libertés requested the prohibition of the poster in summary proceedings. The judge’s reasoning is almost identical to the reasoning in the Ave Maria case. The poster constituted an insult to Catholics that was disproportional to its commercial nature. It was beyond discussion that the poster was ‘une oeuvre de création’, but ‘because of its nature – merely intended to promote the selling of clothes – the poster did not, like a literary or cinematographic work would do, form part of a debate of ideas, was gratuitously offensive and thus insulting.’ The judge prohibited the placement of the poster in all public spaces.The decision was upheld in appeal in April 2005. The judge considered that the separation of the church and the state did not obstruct the application of the law when a religion is insulted, because La loi de 1881 penalizes the insult of a group of people on the ground of their religion. Again, the commercial nature and the forced cognizance of the expression formed important criteria. In addition, the choice to publish the poster just a week before Easter increased the insulting character.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Most Albanians will say they're Albanians first, X religion second. As for Bosnians? I'm not informed enough to comment. Are we going to play the game where we pretend that exceptions to the rule are the norm? As in pointing to a population of less than 5 million and pretending they represent over 1.8 billion people?

Are you going to play the game of painting everyone with the same brush when you just stated what the real issue was. Religious conflict throughout the ages has always been rooted in a person or groups identity. When you attack the most important component of someones identity they will respond fiercely and often irrationally. In places like Albania, Bosnia, Azerbaijan and Turkey religion often took a back seat to the secular state or nationalism. In America, our ideal of freedom and individuality became ingrained in our identity and that's why our muslim community is *generally* less sensitive to these kinds of issues. As an example, a few years ago the American Atheist society posted a billboard in arabic next to a mosque that said "You know it's a myth"

https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012...ws-with-myth-billboards-in-arabic-and-hebrew/

The mosque's executive director said this:

“It is not the first and won’t be the last time people have said things about God or religion,” Elfilali says. “I respect people’s opinion about God; obviously they are entitled to it. I don’t think God is a myth, but that doesn’t exclude people to have a different opinion.”

Where do you think his respect for freedom of speech and individual rights came from? It came from us, his American values were more important to him than striking back at people for insulting his religion. People's identity, this is where the battle is really going to occur today and in the future.

 

[all caps]

God =/= God

 

[Oooxente]

Honestly i think Macron would stay quiet on the issue If The situation in France was under control.
IDT he did for the right reasons,he is just trying to show some sympathy to the majority.

 

[Rob Battisti]

the Globalists like Bloomberg will never stop.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/472218-bloomberg-calls-for-more-immigrants-rather-than-less

““We need immigrants to take all the different kinds of jobs that the country needs — improve our culture, our cuisine, our religion, our dialogue and certainly improve our economy,”

literally none of that shit is true

It’s funny because his company nearly always refused to sponsor H1-B visas

 

[guns&moses]

Combine the pedos of Islam with the pedos of Christianity and you'll get super pedos!

Plus there's nothing quite like social issues to unite fundamentalist islamists and christians.

Holy shit, nail on the head. See Under the Banner of Heaven.

 

[KOQ24]

The only acceptable answer really.

 

[lifelessheap]

Improve our religion? What the fuck is he talking about?

We don't have enough honor killings!

 

[fedoriswar37]

Lol i mean, Islam is fucking stupid. Theyre violent, sick, and worship a fake pedophile prophet. Im roman catholic, any criticism of my religon is likely warranted as well. I wouldn't want to live in a world where i can say what i just did but you couldnt respond to me.

 

[Broadcast]

Props to Macron.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...i-islam-row-saying-blasphemy-is-no-crime-mila

Do you think people should be prohibited from bashing religions?

From bashing symbols, including religious, yes. Caricaturing religion is also not funny, it"s like a mockery. Otherwise non religious people can criticize and they can open atheist discussions if they want. In my opinion Satanism should also be banned.

Blasphemy means mockery.

Minors should also pay for delicts. Otherwise, the French law didn"t ban blasphemy, so this discussion it"s pointless... I just hope they prohibit some bad things like blasphemy and mockeries including those caricatures!

Lol i mean, Islam is fucking stupid. Theyre violent, sick, and worship a fake pedophile prophet. Im roman catholic, any criticism of my religon is likely warranted as well. I wouldn't want to live in a world where i can say what i just did but you couldnt respond to me.

That"s jihadism, totally different. You should not mock their prophet, you can tell them it"s fake but don"t mock! It"s a symbol for them.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

From bashing symbols, including religious, yes. Caricaturing religion is also not funny, it"s like a mockery. Otherwise non religious people can criticize and they can open atheist discussions if they want. In my opinion Satanism should also be banned.

Blasphemy means mockery.

Minors should also pay for delicts. Otherwise, the French law didn"t ban blasphemy, so this discussion it"s pointless... I just hope they prohibit some bad things like blasphemy and mockeries including those caricatures!



That"s jihadism, totally different. You should not mock their prophet, you can tell them it"s fake but don"t mock! It"s a symbol for them.

Isn't mockery the MO of SNL and late night talk shows? And I don't think they're funny. That's hardly a justification for banning them.

Do you not think atheists should have the right to "open atheist discussions"? Out of curiosity, what religion are you?

 

[Hadron90]

Why is it ok to bash religion, but not sexual orientation, race, or gender identity? Many people identify even more strongly with their religion than they do with those other things? An Islamic person is likely to be more offended at a cartoon of Muhammad than a gay person would be at being called a . I don't get the logic.