Black people/communities in America

[panamaican]

They are not being exclude they "financially successful or secure black folks" are not the subject. The thread is about the poverty stricken police controlled urban areas that are for the most part filled with people of color. Answer my initial question before you start with flip flopping. Is it our fault these areas have become so bad or is it due to societal and governmental neglect??

But that wasn't your first question. Your first question was "black America." When I asked you to clarify is when you start excluding nice areas, non-urban areas, non-poor areas, etc.

Do you all think or believe the state of the "black America" is something that can only be blamed on us as people? Like is it our fault our communities are in the conditions their in?? Solely our fault?

Notice how you said "our communities" but later didn't want communities that weren't poor.

Yes they are. But there are not many prominent "mostly black" suburbs or "nice" areas. But there are tons of "urban areas" or poor areas filled with blacks. I was speaking more to that aspect.

See? Black America --> urban black America -----> poor areas filled with blacks. :icon_conf

You can't blame me because you kept shrinking the pool. Perhaps you should edit the OP to accurately reflect the group you're interested in, instead of saying "black America" and implying that you're interested in all aspects thereof.

 

[panamaican]

If that's true where are all the white inner city ghettos?? Also where are all the black suburbs??

Before I answer that - do you know what redlining is and how much do you know about the intersection between property taxes and public school funding?

I grew up in a black suburb and can think of at least 4-5 well-to-do black suburbs off the top of my head, I don't know the lower middle class suburbs though. But you're discussing suburbs in a way that implies you didn't really the point of my post.

 

[Forkfoot]

I think black America, as a whole, has figured out their part of the problem. But the implementation of the solution is not easy. Black America is being asked to implement a complex solution to a multi-century problem within a few decades and that's unrealistic.

At the root of the problem is a basic lack of economic opportunity. It's simple enough to identify and would resolve the majority of the additional problems, regarding violence and single parent homes. However, implementation is complicated.

First and foremost, black America (in the native black American sense, not the West Indian or African sense) does not come to this country with any economic ties to another country. They have no countrymen in a foreign land from which to build business connections. They started from scratch.

Second, black America doesn't possess a language or cultural barrier to competition. Asians, Africans, Hispanics can all create economic communities with barriers to entry based around language servicing new arrivals to the nation. This allows them to create a captive economic environment from which to build wealth that remains in their communities, enriching everyone. By contrast, black America is always in economic competition with the rest of the nation at all levels.

Third, black America only recently received the ability to compete economically without physical retaliation from the mainstream. This was a huge impediment to the creation of wealth in this country.

Fourth, black America suffers in the networking component of climbing the economic ladder. Since they have never been able to create a private economic environment, they have never benefitted from the scale of private networks that other groups, including mainstream white America, used to their advantage. These private networks give access to economic aid and knowledge advantages that accelerate economic success for individuals within the group. For example - the network of financial advisors. Black Americans have a disadvantage in that areas because their networks are only a few decades old while white America's networks stretch back over 100+ years. Additionally, the hispanic network might not be as old but only Spanish speaking people can access it, similarly for Asian networks.

Once you look at those elements and then start looking for industries where black America can compete economically, even if they lack the same network, language and foreign relationship advantages, then you see increasing levels of success. Starting with music, transitioning to sports (once they became interracial), and then that wealth started branching out to other industries (it should be no surprise that the first black billionaires come from television - itself a relatively young industry). The path is a slow one but that should be expected considering that you're asking a small percentage of the nation to compete against the other 86% without the passive economic advantages that those groups possess.

So patience should be the watchword.

Nice post, thanks for sharing. Food for thought.

 

[s karlyle]

I think black America, as a whole, has figured out their part of the problem. But the implementation of the solution is not easy. Black America is being asked to implement a complex solution to a multi-century problem within a few decades and that's unrealistic.

At the root of the problem is a basic lack of economic opportunity. It's simple enough to identify and would resolve the majority of the additional problems, regarding violence and single parent homes. However, implementation is complicated.

First and foremost, black America (in the native black American sense, not the West Indian or African sense) does not come to this country with any economic ties to another country. They have no countrymen in a foreign land from which to build business connections. They started from scratch.

Second, black America doesn't possess a language or cultural barrier to competition. Asians, Africans, Hispanics can all create economic communities with barriers to entry based around language servicing new arrivals to the nation. This allows them to create a captive economic environment from which to build wealth that remains in their communities, enriching everyone. By contrast, black America is always in economic competition with the rest of the nation at all levels.

Third, black America only recently received the ability to compete economically without physical retaliation from the mainstream. This was a huge impediment to the creation of wealth in this country.

Fourth, black America suffers in the networking component of climbing the economic ladder. Since they have never been able to create a private economic environment, they have never benefitted from the scale of private networks that other groups, including mainstream white America, used to their advantage. These private networks give access to economic aid and knowledge advantages that accelerate economic success for individuals within the group. For example - the network of financial advisors. Black Americans have a disadvantage in that areas because their networks are only a few decades old while white America's networks stretch back over 100+ years. Additionally, the hispanic network might not be as old but only Spanish speaking people can access it, similarly for Asian networks.

Once you look at those elements and then start looking for industries where black America can compete economically, even if they lack the same network, language and foreign relationship advantages, then you see increasing levels of success. Starting with music, transitioning to sports (once they became interracial), and then that wealth started branching out to other industries (it should be no surprise that the first black billionaires come from television - itself a relatively young industry). The path is a slow one but that should be expected considering that you're asking a small percentage of the nation to compete against the other 86% without the passive economic advantages that those groups possess.

So patience should be the watchword.

Excuses really. And rhetoric. You must be a government official? City, state or federal? How patient do you expect people to be?? I haven't even mentioned the prison industrial complex you've already deflected the blame from the real cooperates. Everything your saying is propaganda. While I'm stating facts. Please miss me with the right wing excuses. I've heard them all before. And not one mention of a solution,

 

[$uicideboy$]

black president
racism done

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

Well my answer would be no. Pretty simple to me.

 

[kpt018]

The assertion that minorities or the majority for that matter are absolutely not predisposed, in the aggregate, to certain behaviors. We don't know that for a fact. But aside from arguing any form of determinism which always end badly on this forum I can't speak for the OP but I think the proper interpretation is one of choice and that there exists a large element of choice that leads to bad outcome and a bad environment in the urban ghettos.

Do you have any reading on that? I'm open to the idea research conflicts with my reading.

 

[s karlyle]

But that wasn't your first question. Your first question was "black America." When I asked you to clarify is when you start excluding nice areas, non-urban areas, non-poor areas, etc.



Notice how you said "our communities" but later didn't want communities that weren't poor.



See? Black America --> urban black America -----> poor areas filled with blacks. :icon_conf

You can't blame me because you kept shrinking the pool. Perhaps you should edit the OP to accurately reflect the group you're interested in, instead of saying "black America" and implying that you're interested in all aspects thereof.

Excuse my mis wording of the question but I'm sure you like most people knew exactly what I was asking and still have not gave a clear answer. Spin artist are we??

 

[s karlyle]

Before I answer that - do you know what redlining is and how much do you know about the intersection between property taxes and public school funding?

I grew up in a black suburb and can think of at least 4-5 well-to-do black suburbs off the top of my head, I don't know the lower middle class suburbs though. But you're discussing suburbs in a way that implies you didn't really the point of my post.

Can you name them so I can research them? Also Live in California laws vary from state to state. There is actually a couple law suits against the unified school district I the city I currently live in. One for misappropriation of founds the other for discriminatory practices. FYI in the my city there is over 100 schools. Not one of them have a black male a a principal. Food for thought.

 

[s karlyle]

black president
racism done

That's funny if your being sarcastic.. if your serious..

 

[s karlyle]

I don't get it...

 

[s karlyle]

The assertion that minorities or the majority for that matter are absolutely not predisposed, in the aggregate, to certain behaviors. We don't know that for a fact. But aside from arguing any form of determinism which always end badly on this forum I can't speak for the OP but I think the proper interpretation is one of choice and that there exists a large element of choice that leads to bad outcome and a bad environment in the urban ghettos.

Thank you sir.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

I think black America, as a whole, has figured out their part of the problem. But the implementation of the solution is not easy. Black America is being asked to implement a complex solution to a multi-century problem within a few decades and that's unrealistic.

At the root of the problem is a basic lack of economic opportunity. It's simple enough to identify and would resolve the majority of the additional problems, regarding violence and single parent homes. However, implementation is complicated.

First and foremost, black America (in the native black American sense, not the West Indian or African sense) does not come to this country with any economic ties to another country. They have no countrymen in a foreign land from which to build business connections. They started from scratch.

Second, black America doesn't possess a language or cultural barrier to competition. Asians, Africans, Hispanics can all create economic communities with barriers to entry based around language servicing new arrivals to the nation. This allows them to create a captive economic environment from which to build wealth that remains in their communities, enriching everyone. By contrast, black America is always in economic competition with the rest of the nation at all levels.

Third, black America only recently received the ability to compete economically without physical retaliation from the mainstream. This was a huge impediment to the creation of wealth in this country.

Fourth, black America suffers in the networking component of climbing the economic ladder. Since they have never been able to create a private economic environment, they have never benefitted from the scale of private networks that other groups, including mainstream white America, used to their advantage. These private networks give access to economic aid and knowledge advantages that accelerate economic success for individuals within the group. For example - the network of financial advisors. Black Americans have a disadvantage in that areas because their networks are only a few decades old while white America's networks stretch back over 100+ years. Additionally, the hispanic network might not be as old but only Spanish speaking people can access it, similarly for Asian networks.

Once you look at those elements and then start looking for industries where black America can compete economically, even if they lack the same network, language and foreign relationship advantages, then you see increasing levels of success. Starting with music, transitioning to sports (once they became interracial), and then that wealth started branching out to other industries (it should be no surprise that the first black billionaires come from television - itself a relatively young industry). The path is a slow one but that should be expected considering that you're asking a small percentage of the nation to compete against the other 86% without the passive economic advantages that those groups possess.

So patience should be the watchword.

I never thought of the language barrier as being helpful to immigrants but it's an interesting point to think about.

 

[nostradumbass]

First one would be proper allocation of state founds. Primarily putting more money in to the updating of the unified school districts curriculum and facilities. Schools in the hood are old and out dated. Old ass books and teachers that don't care. Then I would put people in the "hood" to work by rebuilding or repairing the physical infrastructure of these urban areas.
Also I would put money into financial education programs to help teach people to be more financially secure.

Should I continue???

No, you can stop right there. Those schools have been given plenty of funding, substantially more than middle class schools. Problem is, nobody wants to work at those schools, despite the fact that they pay quite a bit more, because they're dangerous and the kids are disrespectful and don't make any effort.

My gf worked at one of those schools, it was mostly hatians, and said the funding was amazing. They got a new computer lab, and the kids vandalized it and busted half the computers. She also said she had to provide the kids with pencils and notepaper every day, because asking the kids to bring the supplies they were just given the day before is asking too much. She was offered a job at another one of those schools again, but took another private school job for 20,000 less because those schools aren't worth the extra money.

 

[panamaican]

Excuse my mis wording of the question but I'm sure you like most people knew exactly what I was asking and still have not gave a clear answer. Spin artist are we??

That's not a miswording of the question. See, the problem with your entire thread is that you weren't looking for honest, well-thought out answers of which I've already provided you. You wanted to attack low hanging fruit.

You were looking to target and discuss the least successful aspect of an entire group of America but didn't want to come right out and say it. So, you said "black America" and when pressed to specify which part of black America, you revealed that you weren't interested in all of it.

You claim I knew what you were asking. You're right, I did. But I gave you an opportunity to prove me wrong and prove that this wasn't just a poorly veiled attempt to insult or demean poor inner city communities. Instead, that is exactly what it is.

Change the OP - at least be honest.

 

[s karlyle]

No, you can stop right there. Those schools have been given plenty of funding, substantially more than middle class schools. Problem is, nobody wants to work at those schools, despite the fact that they pay quite a bit more, because they're dangerous and the kids are disrespectful and don't make any effort.

My gf worked at one of those schools, it was mostly hatians, and said the funding was amazing. They got a new computer lab, and the kids vandalized it and busted half the computers. She also said she had to provide the kids with pencils and notepaper every day, because asking the kids to bring the supplies they were just given the day before is asking too much. She was offered a job at another one of those schools again, but took another private school job for 20,000 less because those schools aren't worth the extra money.

My girlfriend currently works for the school district in my city and she also worked for the cities budget department. Your statement is false. Concerning my city any way. The actual schools in "upper class" areas of the city I live in are much more modern and up to date than the schools I the "urban areas" of my city.
Also I have lived in my city over 20 plus years. The elementary and middle schools look exactly the same as they did when I attended close to 20 years ago. They put some money into high schools.. Not that much. I can't speak for your city but I'm very familiar with mine. Nothing I'm saying is an opinion. This is how it is. Most inner city schools lack proper founding.

 

[s karlyle]

That's not a miswording of the question. See, the problem with your entire thread is that you weren't looking for honest, well-thought out answers of which I've already provided you. You wanted to attack low hanging fruit.

You were looking to target and discuss the least successful aspect of an entire group of America but didn't want to come right out and say it. So, you said "black America" and when pressed to specify which part of black America, you revealed that you weren't interested in all of it.

You claim I knew what you were asking. You're right, I did. But I gave you an opportunity to prove me wrong and prove that this wasn't just a poorly veiled attempt to insult or demean poor inner city communities. Instead, that is exactly what it is.

Change the OP - at least be honest.

So your telling me what my intentions are? Now your psychic as well. Lol thanks for your input dude. Very insightful

 

[panamaican]

I never thought of the language barrier as being helpful to immigrants but it's an interesting point to think about.

As a Hispanic lawyer, I assure you it is an immense advantage. It grants you credibility and access that you wouldn't receive otherwise.

Many of my early clients only came to me because I could speak the language. That meant going to venues where Spanish was the only language spoken. People trust you purely on the language level. My mom speaks Spanish in place precisely to establish that community camaraderie. My dad breaks out Patois for the same reason. You become an "insider".

I know that the Asian communities use the same barrier. I have Chinese clients who do almost all of their business in Chinese - they only hire Chinese speaking contractors, Chinese speaking accountants, etc. My brother has managed to become part of a Korean network, only because he has a close Korean friend who opens the doors and speaks the language. So when Korean business owners are selling their businesses and retiring, those businesses sell within the Korean community by word of mouth. If you didn't speak Korean, you'd never have a shot. Africans do the same stuff.

Crazy as it seems, black America is at a disadvantage because their only language is English and everyone speaks that, lol.

 

[panamaican]

So your telling me what my intentions are? Now your psychic as well. Lol thanks for your input dude. Very insightful

I'm telling you to change the OP to reflect what you said. You're not interested in suburban or rural or non-poor parts of black America. You didn't say that?

 

[s karlyle]

I started this thread to bring attention to the problems my community and many other peoples communities have been facing for generations. I felt like many people have forgotten we, while some times separated by color or class are all part of the same society. Maybe if people could understand this.. Problems in the "hood" wouldn't be considered "black problems" but over all societal issues that we should all not just be aware of but address with solution oriented attitude. My main point is no little kids ask to be born in the hood... So why not give EVERYBODY AND EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME SUCCESSFUL.