black belts giving black belts???

[kimurense]

in order to give out a BB the BB has to ask for approval to the head master of the academy, eg. the guy from alliance manaus or something like that would have to ask ratinho, or the headmaster of alliance brazil to promote the guy.

even in blue belt level, the guy that teaches in Portugal (who is a very acomplished black belt), has to ask his master (jair louren

 

[Bolaojj]

My instructor Roberto Atalla got his black belt from "Bolao" Souza to compete at black belt level in 98 but didn't get his first degree certificate from Carlo Gracie Jr until 3-4 years later. I think it's possible to be given a black belt by another black belt however it's as a competition black belt rather than 1st degree teaching black belt which you can only get certified for by a 3rd degree black belt or higher... I'm probably not explaining this very well, am I?

Bolao is my instructor and he is a 5th degree BB now and I believe he was a 3rd degree BB in '98, so he was able to promote someone to BB. According to the confederation you are supposed to be 3rd degree to promote someone to BB, but people have decided not to follow this tradition (along with many others). When someone is promoted to BB, their certificate is supposed to be signed by 3 senior BBs (which is often their instructor and either someone else who can attest to their skill level or someone from the confederation). The reason why Risada's BB certificate was held up may have some to do with the fact that he left Gracie Barra to train with Bolao after he had a dispute at a tounament with Carlos Jr. He had been training mainly with Renzo, and when Renzo moved to the US, Roberto continued at Barra until he had a problem at a tournament and Carlos did not back him up due to politics. Carlos and Renzo promoted Roberto to brown belt, so when he left Carlos probably wasn't too eager to approve his BB (even though it was a couple years later). I'll ask Bolao or Roberto to confirm, but that is how I understand it.

 

[Shooto Panama]

In my old school the instructor (brown belt) recommend belts for lower ranked students to his instructor (black belt). After finish a seminar only the black belt has the right to award belts to lower ranked students.

The only way my old school (Gracie Barra) award black belts is when three black belts agree to give the belt to the brown belt.

 

[GracieMMABarra]

"in order to give out a BB the BB has to ask for approval to the head master of the academy, eg. the guy from alliance manaus or something like that would have to ask ratinho, or the headmaster of alliance brazil to promote the guy."

this is correct. If you are not a 3rd degree BB and you want to promote a guy to BB, you must get approval of the headmaster

 

[Brandinho]

I think they are trying to maintain a certain standard so it doesn't become washed down like other TMA. But then again, it is only a suggestion. Like one poster mentioned earlier, a blue is not the same as all blues. It depends on teacher, dedication of student, location, competitors, etc, etc, etc. Take for example Higgs giving Dean his BB right after Fabio promoted Higgs. I am sure nobody is going to call into question Dean's abilities. Should he have waited? I don't know. Personally, I am pretty old-school so I prefer the standards method personally. But I am not going to judge others than don't.

 

[guardpasser]

Do you have an example of a non-third degree black belt giving another guy a black belt? Its not that I don't believe you, it would just help if I knew who you were talking about.

Also, let's not forget that black belts above third degree aren't infallible in decision making either. The promotion of Conan Silveira to black belt comes to mind.

i have heard of it happening at several places but dont have any names.
there is a rumor of a black belt in north carolina that got his from a black belt and now he has given a black belt... names would not be appropriate,

 

[guardpasser]

jorge gurgel probably had backing from someone higher ranking, stutzman is good, i go tot roll with him.
did marc laimon give out a black belt? naybe to roy nelson....not sure

marc does his own thing...he is the anti...confederation, but i still like him.

 

[Foolkiller]

Bolao is my instructor and he is a 5th degree BB now and I believe he was a 3rd degree BB in '98, so he was able to promote someone to BB. According to the confederation you are supposed to be 3rd degree to promote someone to BB, but people have decided not to follow this tradition (along with many others). When someone is promoted to BB, their certificate is supposed to be signed by 3 senior BBs (which is often their instructor and either someone else who can attest to their skill level or someone from the confederation). The reason why Risada's BB certificate was held up may have some to do with the fact that he left Gracie Barra to train with Bolao after he had a dispute at a tounament with Carlos Jr. He had been training mainly with Renzo, and when Renzo moved to the US, Roberto continued at Barra until he had a problem at a tournament and Carlos did not back him up due to politics. Carlos and Renzo promoted Roberto to brown belt, so when he left Carlos probably wasn't too eager to approve his BB (even though it was a couple years later). I'll ask Bolao or Roberto to confirm, but that is how I understand it.

Okee doke. Wasn't too sure of Bolao's rank at the time he promoted Roberto.

 

[Bubble Boy]

I just think it's all a bit silly.
Sure a federation, or central governing body of some sort is needed. Without a doubt. But if a guy is a 1st degree black belt, and he's running a school, and one of his brown belts is coming along really well, shouldn't he be able to "check in" with his governing body and promote the brown belt? Let's say the brown belt has just won a good tournament and faced black belts in the process.

And what about a promotion board, or testing board, with several black belts, one of which is at the appropriate rank to promote? Coudn't the lowly first degree black belt contact someone higher ranking and say, "Look, I think I've got a guy here who is ready to step up to black belt...come see what you think... ?"
It seems like bjj is going through it's growing pains in trying to figure this stuff out.

 

[guardpasser]

when a lack belt has a guy that needs to be promoted to black belt, i think most of the time they do call in higher ranking black belts to look at the guy with them. the higher belt is the one doing the promotion but the guy can still be under the instructor from that school

 

[physicaltherapy]

My instructor Roberto Atalla got his black belt from "Bolao" Souza to compete at black belt level in 98 but didn't get his first degree certificate from Carlo Gracie Jr until 3-4 years later. I think it's possible to be given a black belt by another black belt however it's as a competition black belt rather than 1st degree teaching black belt which you can only get certified for by a 3rd degree black belt or higher... I'm probably not explaining this very well, am I?

Forget all this nonesense, send this brown belt into a balck belt competition. If he can hang with these guys then maybe he should be a black belt. If he places then he's definitely a black belt. If he takes first then definitely, how can you deny that this guy is not at a black belt level?