BJJ 'wizards' that can't take a fight to the ground

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by frandie2b, Oct 14, 2019.

  1. frandie2b

    frandie2b ------(SALD BELT)------

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    So as you imagine I make this thread following the Swanson vs. Kron Gracie fight, where Kron got completely outclassed on the feet, while not attempting a single takedown (or maybe only one).

    In this fight Kron seemed to be another of those BJJ experts that can't / don't want to take a fight to the ground. Is this because of his poor wrestling abilities ? Or maybe he thinks his striking is good enough to win a fight on the feet ? Either way it's a mistake and that's why guys like Khabib and Maia are considered the best grapplers in MMA. They know their strenght.

    Another good exemple is Brian Ortega, or even Davi Ramos most recently. And I'm sure there are many others.

    Oh and I just read that Kron thinks he won the fight lol : https://www.mmafighting.com/2019/10...decision-loss-to-cub-swanson-i-won-that-fight
     
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  2. TheAmericanGazelle

    TheAmericanGazelle Black Belt

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    I've seen a few people suggest that Kron *wanted* to keep the fight standing to "prove a point" about his striking, or "get more cage time", or some such nonsense.

    Kron didn't take the fight to the ground because he couldn't. Point blank.
     
  3. sampuncher

    sampuncher Brown Belt

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    Mackenzie Dern shouldn't stand up.
     
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  4. TerraRayzing

    TerraRayzing Little eagle soars again

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  5. kaiserkarl

    kaiserkarl White Belt

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    Honestly Kron lack of offensive wrestling is baffling.
     
  6. Dragonslayer82

    Dragonslayer82 Green Belt

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    You pretty much hit it on the nail. Cub Swanson's strategy totally messed up Kron's strategy. Normally you don't see Cub do this but he resorted to the typical Winklejohn/Jackson strategy when faced with superior grapplers, that is hit and run, fast lateral movements left/right and backwards. I think this is what got Kron where he couldn't really get anything going. He probably expected the type of Cub that went forward when he fought the Goat Artem.

    One thing though Kron is a tough son of a b***. He took shot after shot to the face and body and a load of leg kicks but kept moving forward, never giving up. If he can improve his stand up at he'll be a legit contender in this weight division.
     
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  7. Th3Sav4ge

    Th3Sav4ge "What the fuck is happening!?"

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    does kron really think he won that fight?
     
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  8. loyalyolayal

    loyalyolayal Steel Belt

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    ITT we assume Cub doesn't train Judo and wrestling.
     
  9. Reaper_mma_MKII

    Reaper_mma_MKII Orange Belt

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    A poster on another thread had pointed out:

    Yes, we know all this about the gracies now more or less but it's kind of a double edged sword where the gracies are teachers and the second they bring in other coaches to train them, they immediately passively admit that Jiu-Jitsu isn't enough. I kinda see it that way now as far as the issues with Gracie's/Gracie style fighters.

    PS: I apologise if that made no sense, I'm half a sleep and decided it would still be a good idea to get incredibly stoned at 3am
     
  10. The Merchant

    The Merchant Brown Belt

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    nah it's cause he thought he was winning lol
     
  11. frandie2b

    frandie2b ------(SALD BELT)------

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    Nope, ITT we assume that Kron didn't even try/want to take him down.
     
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  12. Conor_Is_Overrated

    Conor_Is_Overrated Blue Belt

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    Yes, and Dern lost pretty much the same way as Kron (there were lots of differences between the two fights, but in the end, the major factor in both was the fact that the supposedly superior BJJ fighter had basically no chance to take the other fighter down).

    You can't really compete with bjj, if you don't have some kind of an offensive grappling mode.
     
  13. xhaydenx

    xhaydenx Brown Belt

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    He does, but he also thinks the world is flat, so I wouldn't put too much stock into what Kron thinks. Dude ain't all that smart.
     
  14. Quietus

    Quietus Black Belt

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    you only have a finite amount of time to train, and you peak as an athlete in your 20s and early 30s.. so if you put in the time to become a high level BJJ player, chances are you probably don't have the time to also become an elite wrestler and/or striker, its one or the other, or none of the above and you're just well rounded. There's never been a fighter who's truly mastered all martial arts, everyone could lose to someone else in a certain area of expertise.
     
  15. HelloJapan

    HelloJapan Talking loud and saying nothing. Platinum Member

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    Dude, this thread has been done to death. Also, your Ortega "exemple" is retarded, Brian doesn't generally go for TD's, he finds submissions in clinches/scrambles, like how he subbed Cub.

    Now, seeing that you have nothing new, or of substance, to bring to the discussion...

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. tequilaboy

    tequilaboy Purple Belt

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    He also thinks the earth is flat so...
     
  17. Jojomojo

    Jojomojo Green Belt

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    Thats a serious issue with people who have only trained bjj for the whole Part of their earlyw career, since Bjjs takedown mostly consist of Judo throws or simply pulling guard. Also in bjj comptition you dont have to invest to much time training even these, bc the fight will always end up on the ground at some point and If you are really good you dont mind to much being in a defensive position first.

    A huge part of why american no-gi fighters are taking over bjj competition is not only their often talked about leglock game but also because they often have a folkstyle wrestling backround or are not to proud to learn basic wrestling techniques (and also the opportunities to train that are way better in the US than in Brazil).

    Im sure Kron has all those opportunities. Maybe he is to proud to learn it, maybe he thought clinching would be ebough (it has been for all his previous fights).
    I dont know, but i wouldnt say its neccesarily a general issue since guys like Maia,Werdum or Shields have developt solid wrestling.
     
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  18. HuskySamoan

    HuskySamoan Brown Belt

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    Isnt Kron like 31 with 7 pro fights and just lost a lopsided division to an out of prime journeyman? Any confidence he "could" ever be a contender is foolish at best.
     
  19. frandie2b

    frandie2b ------(SALD BELT)------

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    Thanks for your contribution we appreciate it, and nice gif but your are the one getting out of this thread ;)
     
  20. Dragonslayer82

    Dragonslayer82 Green Belt

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    He's fought 6 times, 2 x in the UFC having beaten Alex Caceres by RNC. In all his fights that he has won has been by submissions. I believe his ground game is elite as Alex is no mug. Now I said that if he can sort out his stand up he could become a contender. This is in the context of him having elite grappling, a solid chin (from the number of times he got hit by Cub) and heart. Now had he not kept chasing Cub who was employing a hit and run strategy, could it have gone differently?
     
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