BJJ stand-up proficiency from blue to black belt.

[Judochopatemi]

Have you experienced any changing quality in stand-up ranging from blue to black belt from people who don't crosstrain?

Do they ever pick up their stand-up game or does it tend to look the same even when they reach expert level?

 

[RemyR]

Obviously, this will vary widely based on the school.

 

[Balto]

It picks up.

It is pretty rare to have a BJJ black belt that has no skill from the feet. Obviously the ceiling of skill varies quite a bit based on the person. But I am having trouble thinking of any black belts that I know that really have no skill from the feet whatsoever.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

I feel like more people pull guard at higher belt levels but the difference is marginal imo

 

[nefti]

Shit if anything my takedowns are worse.
I used to train judo in s korea when i was a blue belt/younger. Now? I dont even remember the last time i trained stand up.

I am not trying to do hours of break falls im not trying to get slammed (gravity is gravity and impact is impact no matter how much u breakfall).

Thats why older judokas perfer newaza.

 

[Daz2300]

Most seem to feel at purple they've got to at least make some effort to develop a few takedowns from what i've seen. If they can't do a few competently against their own belt or better they tend to recognise it as a gap that they really should address.

At a certain point even the most ardent guard puller figures out finishing a lot of sweeps is going to involve fighting to put somebody on their back in a way that is essentially a takedown so you need that skillset.

 

[Judochopatemi]

trouble thinking of any black belts that I know that really have no skill from the feet whatsoever.

Rickson Gracie is the obvious one for me. Incredibly negligent and he's very strong so that's even more proof that he doesn't care

 

[yetanother]

Rickson Gracie is the obvious one for me. Incredibly negligent and he's very strong so that's even more proof that he doesn't care

He did takedown some of his opponents in mma. OTOH he fought completely unskilled shit tier pro wrestling opponents in pride.

 

[sb413197]

Shit if anything my takedowns are worse.
I used to train judo in s korea when i was a blue belt/younger. Now? I dont even remember the last time i trained stand up.

I am not trying to do hours of break falls im not trying to get slammed (gravity is gravity and impact is impact no matter how much u breakfall).

Thats why older judokas perfer newaza.

Yep, my one serious BJJ injury (elbow dislocation) was from hard standup sparring, and I was way more experienced than the guy I was training with, and I can think of a bunch of times I could have gotten just as serious an injury - neck injuries etc that thankfully didn't happen. Standup sparring just isn't in the cards for me anymore.

 

[nefti]

Rickson Gracie is the obvious one for me. Incredibly negligent and he's very strong so that's even more proof that he doesn't care

Rickson trained with medi in brazil and got his black belt from him in judo. He is competent in judo.

 

[Judochopatemi]

Rickson trained with medi in brazil and got his black belt from him in judo. He is competent in judo.

The Judo master he rolled with was very dismissive of his stand-up.. It's on youtube.

 

[nefti]

The Judo master he rolled with was very dismissive of his stand-up.. It's on youtube.

Because he isnt a judo master, just got his shodan

 

[Judochopatemi]

Because he isnt a judo master, just got his shodan

You don't know how long ago that was compared to when he was fighting. Kron Gracie has a black belt too and he showed zero judoskills against Swanson

 

[nefti]

You don't know how long ago that was compared to when he was fighting. Kron Gracie has a black belt too and he showed zero judoskills against Swanson

Most judokas will show zero judo skills against cub swanson. Look at the long list of failed judokad in mma. Ishii couldnt take anyone decent down

 

[nefti]

Kron needed to work on his doubles and singles, not on no gi judo.

 

[Judochopatemi]

Most judokas will show zero judo skills against cub swanson. Look at the long list of failed judokad in mma. Ishii couldnt take anyone decent down

Well Judo does work with no gi, you just adjust the grip.


Two olympians, no gi. The judo guy gets the upperhand eventually.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Shit if anything my takedowns are worse.
I used to train judo in s korea when i was a blue belt/younger. Now? I dont even remember the last time i trained stand up.

I am not trying to do hours of break falls im not trying to get slammed (gravity is gravity and impact is impact no matter how much u breakfall).

Thats why older judokas perfer newaza.

Yep, my one serious BJJ injury (elbow dislocation) was from hard standup sparring, and I was way more experienced than the guy I was training with, and I can think of a bunch of times I could have gotten just as serious an injury - neck injuries etc that thankfully didn't happen. Standup sparring just isn't in the cards for me anymore.

Re. age I think it really depends which style you started out in. In both stand-up and matwork, you have to progress through the "white belt spaz" stage and that's going to be injury prone in both. I've seen roughly comparable number and type of injuries in wrestling rooms, Judo clubs and BJJ gyms. But if you're doing TDs for the first time as an older guy, it can be a lot more painful. Probably the most dangerous thing is two Judo (or BJJ) white belts fighting to the death for a TD. They're both stiff, awkward and a disaster waiting to happen.

But if both guys are proficient, TDs are a lot less painful. Attacker is doing it with control and uke knows when to concede the TD and breakfall. Not saying it doesn't still hurt sometimes but much less than two beginners going at it.

I'm in my mid-40's and right before the lockdown I was going TDs with the active UFC fighter at my gym (no I'm not worthy but he's great at matching strength and skill when going with the plebes). He went for a single and I trolled him by countering with uchi mata, which he trolled me back by adjusting and high crotch lift dumping me into bolivian. Then he stood up, raised his hand in the air and said "Ippon!" He did it with control and he knows I know how to breakfall so no one got hurt and we were both laughing about it afterwards.

 

[sb413197]

The Judo master he rolled with was very dismissive of his stand-up.. It's on youtube.

It's interesting how much Judo that Roger Gracie used in his prime. I was looking at some of his old matches and he's always going for stuff - very aggressive, and a lot of it lands. Almost more than he probably should have given how deadly his guard was.

 

[Daz2300]

It's interesting how much Judo that Roger Gracie used in his prime. I was looking at some of his old matches and he's always going for stuff - very aggressive, and a lot of it lands. Almost more than he probably should have given how deadly his guard was.

He also shut down the far younger more explosive Buchecha on the feet pretty easily in their 2nd match from what i remember for a good five minutes before pulling guard off the dominate grips he had, controlling the arm then taking his back and choking him.

 

[shunyata]

You don't know how long ago that was compared to when he was fighting. Kron Gracie has a black belt too and he showed zero judoskills against Swanson

Swanson has better mma Judo than Kron by far, and Cub was outboxing the shit out of Kron the entire fight.

I'm not sure what this example was supposed to demonstrate.