Bjj Secrets in 2010?

[YeahBee]

Actual gameplans and whatnot should obviously still be kept "secret" but I am with Balto, his example is the same as one I encountered in gracie Mag about Flavio canto(sadly I have tried my best google-fu but the article is long gone)

he was shown in an article showing his special techniques to the top 5 guys in his weight class in Brazil, guys he would be competing against for Olympic and worlds spots. He said that it forced him to become better, great attitude

 

[HEAVY GRAPPLER]

I think it's funny what constitutes a secret. Ryan Hall says the way Rickson shrimps (or rather doesn't shrimp?) is a secret. RH won't describe it online, but will teach it to you if you show up in person from what I understand.

People rave about the upa after Rickson's seminars. I had a couple privates with Rickson BB Shane_Rice a few weeks ago. I asked to go over the upa and he said "Oh, you want ALL the good stuff." Now I too know the secret upa. For the record - it is awesome.

If they ask, I'll keep it secret. But these days a secret shared between two people is not a secret at all. Eventually it will all come out. Maybe it will be diluted by sloppy techniques, short cuts and bad habits spread from instructor to student - but the secrets will still be out there somewhere, waiting to be discovered.

 

[redaxe]

I think it's funny what constitutes a secret. Ryan Hall says the way Rickson shrimps (or rather doesn't shrimp?) is a secret. RH won't describe it online, but will teach it to you if you show up in person from what I understand.

People rave about the upa after Rickson's seminars. I had a couple privates with Rickson BB Shane_Rice a few weeks ago. I asked to go over the upa and he said "Oh, you want ALL the good stuff." Now I too know the secret upa. For the record - it is awesome.

If they ask, I'll keep it secret. But these days a secret shared between two people is not a secret at all. Eventually it will all come out. Maybe it will be diluted by sloppy techniques, short cuts and bad habits spread from instructor to student - but the secrets will still be out there somewhere, waiting to be discovered.

Did Shane show you the mythical "two-step armbar" as well?

 

[anaconda]

Meh...you can say that the rickson upa is a "secret" technique. The reality is that people at the top levels are doing it the right way.

What makes it a secret is that what most people think is right is wrong. Not that only a few people know it, or that they are hiding it. The fact of the matter is that most people suck at jiujitsu and even most schools don't teach good jiujitsu.

I like the way Lloyd described it in his podcast interview. Basically he and Rafa Mendes were talking about secrets. Rafa said there are no secrets, just train hard, drill, etc. Lloyd said "But are there things that you do that other people don't do, don't know about?" (not in terms of techniques per se, but in terms of methodology of training, drilling, repetition, etc).

Rafa said yes, and Lloyd said - then thats a secret. The people at the top do things differently than others. Is it a secret? If you want to call it that. Really, the reason they are at the top is because they have learned this things which made them better and better. VERY few people try to actually hide techniques anymore bc it just makes the game stagnant. So what that means is if you learn and train you can get better too.

Most people won't though, since most people will be dismissive or won't appreciate how such small differences can change everything. So it will stay a "secret."

 

[mtruitt76]

I don't believe there are any secrets in BJJ in terms of technique. People who are making techniques work at the highest level don't some kernel of knowledge that no one else has. What they have is superior timing and a greater feel for the technique. They achieve this through practice, repetition, and persistence, otherwise known as hard work.

The only secret in BJJ is some people are willing to put the time and effort into mastering a technique. These people are then able to perform the technique, while other people who have not but in the time and effort are left believing their is some minor detail which if they knew would allow them to perform a technique which they currently can not.

 

[mtruitt76]

People rave about the upa after Rickson's seminars. I had a couple privates with Rickson BB Shane_Rice a few weeks ago. I asked to go over the upa and he said "Oh, you want ALL the good stuff." Now I too know the secret upa. For the record - it is awesome.

I had an instructor at a gym I used to train at attend a Rickson seminar where he covered the upa. If the upa technique they covered was the "secret upa", then it is tucking your shoulder when you perform the upa so you are not rolling over your shoulder when you perform the upa.

 

[Drew Foster]

I'm going quote the contrasting perspectives of two forum members on the topic and maybe we can get a good discussion going.

Drew Foster recently visited 50/50 for a few days and has sworn an oath of secrecy in order to keep the training methods of the school confidential. It's not clear wether Ryan Hall or somebody else at the gym told him to do this or whether Drew just took it upon himself.

Ryan Hall has said in an (excellent) interview that the elite of bjj have their secrets. Interestingly, his former teacher Lloyd Irvin has also said in an interview that there are secrets that others don

 

[Drew Foster]

Disagree, its not he technique thats a secret its the details within it that make it a higher percentage technique. For instance I've seen armbar from mount taught by several instructors and watch many DVD's and youtube videos on it. Most details are the same but one instructor added some additional details I hadnt seen before. These few details changed the technique. It went from being a medium percentage move to being a medium-high percentage technique. Watching it in a tournament or video you dont see all the details.

So I'm not sure if this is what people refer to as there being secrets between one school to the next, However I do know that small details in how the tech is taught do exist to the point where it can make a technique much more successful and easier to land.

Yes. There are details that make the step-over/mounted Darce a much higher percentage finish than most other no-gi chokes and there's no other Darce finish you will use besides maybe the baseball slide-Glover/Cooper finish once you learn the little details of WHY it is infinitely better than the sprawl version from top-side. So basically:

1. Once you learn the little details to the Marce/Glover/clock-in/off the side & back Darce finish you will probably stop using the sprawl finish as much.
2. Once you learn the details to the mount/step-over Cobrinha/Hall finish, you will probably prefer that one.

That said, all 3 Darce finishes have their place, but the mount is the one I will aim for from now on. There are little details that actually aren't that obvious that make it so.

This applies to almost every sweep/pass/sub and it seems pretty overwhelming.

 

[Drew Foster]

I think it's funny what constitutes a secret. Ryan Hall says the way Rickson shrimps (or rather doesn't shrimp?) is a secret. RH won't describe it online, but will teach it to you if you show up in person from what I understand.

Exactly. Depends on what a secret is to you. Ryan won't describe it online (why should he?) but he did teach it to me, so apparently what you heard about the fact that he will teach it is correct.

Its not secret techniques, its more efficient ways to execute them. The proof is that the majority of schools teach techniques and leave out important details. Some schools figure these things out, some don't. Some readily share them, some don't. Ryan will show you things if you come to him, we just don't make it a point to spread it around just for the sake of talking about it on the internet and stuff.

For example, last week I was training with Bruno Frazatto. We were working on passing the RDLR guard. Tornado guard. Whatever stupid name it has. I have had at least five people teach me this same pass. Not one of them added the details Bruno added. He corrected me the very instant I was not in the perfect position, and it made all the difference for control. Off the top of my head, my foot was too far away from my sparring partner to apply appropriate pressure, and then it was too close so they could easily swing to deep half guard. My foot was turned the 90 degrees in the wrong direction, and thus my base was affected, and because my base was able to be moved, I couldnt apply appropriate pressure. My head was too high, and the pressure from my right arm was directed too low on their body. He adjusted the way my arm was turned and it made me able to hold the right side of their body flat. These are details you would not notice just by watching a match, so if you think that this stuff will just "come out" over time, you are wrong. It comes out by people studying these positions intensely and scrutinizing them.

In the next pass, the adjustment was the pant grip I was using. My knuckles needed to be facing down to appropriately control their leg, and they had been facing 90 degrees the wrong way, towards them.

To use Roger as an example, he is not doing the same thing as anyone, no matter how basic his jiu jitsu looks. Why is he able to easily do things everyone else struggles with? Why is he able to make things look so easy? Because he understands the adjustments that need to be made for success and for the body mechanics to work the correct way, and has drilled it enough that these small details have become second nature and automatic. If you think Roger is "just good" you are naive and not looking at things critically and you should go pick up a book about creationism and be content with never being able to reach a comprehensive understanding of why things work.

The problem with these kind of explanations is that many cannot grasp them without FEELING and drilling what is being talked about and thus they misinterpret them. And what's worse is they just have to justify and expand upon their misinterpretations because the internet loves to talk.

Kenny basically just ended the thread. Here's your answer.