BJJ Question for the Smaller Guys and Girls Out There!!

[Funkoar]

I'll chime in on this as well if you don't mind.

As someone who's significant other also trains. I can tell you that I care about her and because of this I worry when she gets beat up terribly hard by some guys who go very hard. Other than that, no.

The reason you think it's weird is because you have either latent homosexuality and equate BJJ with sex. Or you haven't had a kiss by a girl in way too long and also equate all bodily contact with sex.

Solution for your problems if something like that bothers you is to just not be so obsessed with sex.

Lol at your reply. I would never have a problem with it, it is part of the sport and you know full well what you are getting yourselves into.

But, I just wonder in situations where couples may not be at that stage in their relationship, or fighting with one another at the time, and even that jock-type douche jealous bf type (ones that get upset if you look at their girl) would feel about it.

Like, what if there is a guy, he is better than you in every way, he is rolling with her and making her have an awesome time and laugh and giggle. You're telling me you wouldn't think it was weird or care even a little bit?

Sorry for getting off subject.

 

[Coolnickname]

Lol at your reply. I would never have a problem with it, it is part of the sport and you know full well what you are getting yourselves into.

But, I just wonder in situations where couples may not be at that stage in their relationship, or fighting with one another at the time, and even that jock-type douche jealous bf type (ones that get upset if you look at their girl) would feel about it.

Like, what if there is a guy, he is better than you in every way, he is rolling with her and making her have an awesome time and laugh and giggle. You're telling me you wouldn't think it was weird or care even a little bit?

Sorry for getting off subject.

Hehe, oh hell yeah there are tons of people who would fight over stuff like that or be insecure. But those people would be so regardless of BJJ. BJJ would just be fasttracking it I guess.

But totally honestly. I wouldn't mind that. I'm very lucky with the fact that I really trust my girl 100 percent. I guess that's where the problem is for most people. I dunno about OP. Maybe he hates that shit yo!

 

[Gia]

I'm a 200lb white belt and I roll with a few of the girls occasionally. Its probably my lack of experience, but when I try to hold back on strength and using my weight it usually comes off as me going way too easy on them. One of the girls that I know fairly well actually gets frustrated with me when I do it.

He might be going hard because he doesn't want to insult you by going easy. Maybe all he can really do (being so new) is rely on his strength/weight.

 

[Discipulus]

One thing that always helped me when rolling with much bigger guys is I learned to take and maintain the back. I find it much easier to stay out of any possible danger, and easier to finish. Just my opinion.

In my fourth or so class I got lateral dropped by a much smaller guy and then choked out from the back, all within about thirty seconds of the start of the round. 100 pounds of weight advantage don't count for much without the necessary experience and technique!

 

[TheMMAnalyst]

Oooor... She could not go for techniques against bigger opponents that rely too much on strength, and instead develop a game that allows her to defeat people that will be able to muscle out of such subs.

Not sure if you are just trying to nit-pick peoples posts or what my friend, but this is exactly what I said:

The thing about being "efficient' in training is understanding when using energy is truly going to benefit you.

There were some good recommendations in this thread, and if applied to someone of the same size/strength you will surely escape the position.

My advice was to not waste energy when at a massive size/strength disadvantage and I acknowledged some of the previous good suggestions posted prior to mine. Don't really get where you got the idea that I suggested she use strength to muscle her techniques.

Also, how did you get lateral dropped in your 4th class? Unless it's a competition class, 99% of BJJ training starts from the ground and they aren't going to allow white belts at most schools to train stand-up in the beginning because takedowns/trips can be really dangerous when people have poor technique.

 

[Imparanoid]

I have a question for you.

Is it weird to watch dudes roll with your gf? I ask because there is a couple at my gym and I have always wondered if they don't enjoy watching their partner rolling with the opposite sex.

Hey there! I'll give you my opinion as well, from a girl's perspective!

The first gym I tried to start BJJ at was under a coach who had known me/my family since I was in middle school. (In college now) When I would go to class, he would always only pair me up with the other female, even though she was about 80lbs heavier than me. He also didn't let me roll with any of the guys. The coach would work with me sometimes, but always commentate if drilling, that he was being "politically correct." Example, he would put his hands on my shoulders, not anywhere on my torso.

Honestly the whole dynamic above made me feel very uncomfortable, as a female trying to train jits. I knew he was trying to be "respectful" but it was also frustrating when there were lots of guys my size willing to roll with me, but he didn't let me. One night the head coach wasn't there, and a brown belt taught the class. He let me roll, and I learned so much more that night, then any other time I trained at that gym. I ended up leaving after about a month.

My gym now is very small. It's main profits are not coming in through it's BJJ program. On any given night there are probably 5-6 of us training. (I'm the only girl) One guy actually told me, his girlfriend doesn't like him rolling with girls. He was totally cool about it and just laughed and said that she was the jealous type. That really didn't bother me at all. I don't think the girlfriend really understands what BJJ is all about, but I could see depending on her personality if she saw her boyfriend rolling around with a girl, that could make her feel weird. One guy's girlfriend is at the gym all the time (not for jits) and has seen me interact and roll with her boyfriend. His girlfriend and I are cool and talk sometimes. She knows to me it's a sport I signed up for.

Regardless of the fact that a lot of these posts have been about "how to roll with a girl" i.e. use technique not outright strength, which there is a purple belt who I love rolling with because that's what he does, for me as a girl in BJJ, I just "want to be treated the same" in most respects. I'm not a weirdo trying to steal your boyfriend or anything like that! : )

If a girl is like me, it isn't weird for her to roll with guys, because she is just there to train like everyone else. I don't think it should be weird for a BJJ girl's boyfriend to watch if he knows that she and the guys rolling with her are cool and just there because of a sport they all love.

 

[jlee14]

hello 135lb brown belt and it still happens to me.

if the guy is leaning for using his weight to pin your arms the way i get out is i curl inwards and put my feet in his armpits and then back roll and come out the back.

very beginner move but it works well against beginners.

but what everybody else says is more important in the long run. learn how to grip fight and hide your elbows between your torso and his legs.

all the best! it gets better as you progress.

 

[Imparanoid]

For the OP, in this situation the best thing to do is to not get caught with your arms extended and away from your body, especially if there's such a big size difference. I know that's not tremendously helpful, but eventually you internalize the idea that you have to stay in a good position the whole time, and you start to recognize somebody putting you in a bad position.

It drives me nuts when bigger, stronger people do stuff like this, but it just motivates me to become even more technically competent so I have a better chance of dealing with them.

Honestly if a much bigger and stronger guy did this to me and then all he did was hang out without trying anything, I'd say that was someone trying to make a point (or make themselves feel better) without trying to learn. I'd probably just lay there until it became socially uncomfortable for him, and then ask him if he planned to advance his position.

Thanks for the reply!! I realize, I'm the one who didn't protect my arms.. And I guess he felt good for holding someone down, but I'm so ready now! I'm pumped up to train tonight! haha

 

[Imparanoid]

I'm a 200lb white belt and I roll with a few of the girls occasionally. Its probably my lack of experience, but when I try to hold back on strength and using my weight it usually comes off as me going way too easy on them. One of the girls that I know fairly well actually gets frustrated with me when I do it.

He might be going hard because he doesn't want to insult you by going easy. Maybe all he can really do (being so new) is rely on his strength/weight.

Hey! Honestly hearing your perspective is so eye-opening. I really didn't think of the possibility that he had good intensions... I guess the main point is we're all coming up to the gym to train, doing what we can!

Cheers!

 

[Imparanoid]

To OP

Like someone else said, if he needs to take a break, you're doing ok.

Why do you have to do anything though? He's resting. Why can't you rest? Is he submitting you by holding your arms? No? Then don't worry about it. Is it annoying and kind of wasting both of your time if he never lets up until the round is over? Certainly. But a problem? Not in a million years.

Learn to take advantage of when he tries to do something again. Be patient. If he wants to submit you, he's going to have to let go of at least one arm. Maybe even both for a second. This is what you should be waiting for.

If he feels like he's winning by holding down a ridiculously smaller person, let him. It will only hurt his improvement in the long run. Rolling with bigger people isn't necessarily horrible. Just get over the fact that 99% of the time you spend in BJJ is going to be spent "losing". It's like grinding experience in a game like World of Warcraft. It's not always fun to kill the same boring things over and over. But you have to do it to get the experience points to level up. THEN you can do the cool stuff.

In short. Have patience. If you're rolling with a huge size and/or strength disadvantage, whenever you're not submitting, you're doing well. Keep at it.

I like it! Want to get to the point where I can completely capitalize on his resting, but really good perspective!

 

[Imparanoid]

Ha! Sounds like what happens w/me when I (woman, 5'9", 145lbs, white belt) roll with this one particular white belt guy who probably has at least 35lbs on me. I don't think that he's really more technically skilled than I. I certainly train more than he does and my fitness is much better, but his size is such (and my escapes clearly have some room for improvement) that when he passes my guard, I'm done.

I always try to avoid rolling with him because it's just so, so, so, so boring. He'll pass my guard, go to mount, he sits on me like a fat-ar$e, and forces an americana. It's boring because it's always the same submission (which, I know begs the question as to why, if I know what's coming, I can't prevent it?) and once he gets mount, he never tries to transition to side control, to the back, or to work different submissions. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of other people that I train with that when I start out I know I'm about to be arm bar'd or choked or whatever but I'll never know where it's coming from and by the time I see it coming, it'll be too late.

Furthermore, when I roll with people who are better and/or bigger than me, they generally let me work my escapes, at least initially, before sinking into a submission. This guy, tho, has no time to let another fellow white belt (and one who is significantly smaller than them) work their escapes because he's so intent on his americana. It's super annoying.

I've started tapping super early, just because he is so intent on the submission that I don't even want to try to fight it because I may end up getting hurt. Once he's gotten the set-up, I know I'm eff'd so I may as well reset and try to learn just a little more about preventing his passes.

But, give yourself some time & your game will come together. I train more regularly than him and my guard has gotten better so that the last time I rolled with him, yes, he got a tap from me from his americana set-up but after we reset, I was able to arm drag him and transition to his back and then I got to ride his boring ar$e like a pony. (Alto, I didn't get any submissions as I couldn't break his grips for an arm bar and every time I went for a bow&arrow, I couldn't get the choke hand deep enough. But I got to transition between the two sides and those two submission set-ups and make him sweat, so I was pretty happy about it.)

I've complained about how mind-numbingly boring he is before.

Thanks so much for the post! Being the only girl at my gym, I love hearing from other BJJ ladies!!

I know I'm still so new, it will take time to get the most out of rolling. And as someone pointed out earlier, some training partners you really just aren't going to get much out of.

You are improving and learning training with this guy, even if you didn't get him to tap! That's definitely a goal of where I want to get!!

CHeers!

 

[Imparanoid]

I came in here to say you can use the foot-drag escape. I am your size and I find this very useful. Even ask someone in your gym to help you drill it a few times!

Let us know how you go with it

Being that my school is so small, I am so grateful for the sense of BJJ community from all of you! And as I just replied to someone else, I am so pumped up to train tonight.. haha : ) Cheers!

 

[Imparanoid]

It really sucks to be in your situation, so I totally feel for you. Sometimes there really isn't an effective counter when you are that over-matched in size/strength/technique, which makes it infuriating to train with douches like that.

The thing about being "efficient' in training is understanding when using energy is truly going to benefit you. When a guy has you mounted and is pinning you and you can't do much because he has 50+ pounds and he is a dude so he is stronger, you need to to almost bait the guy to attack with a submission (i.e. try to give up an arm or expose your neck so the guy will move and go for something).

If someone is stronger/bigger but not very experienced or technical and just wants to hold you down and you struggle against it (which is a natural reaction), the guy is just going to focus more on holding you down. Since he is on top, it takes him way less energy to counter-fight, and since he has size/strength, you are just going to get exhausted fighting out of a perilous position, while he is resting. If he is just pinning you down and isn't taking the bait on the arm/neck and isn't trying at all to submit you or go for transitions, I'd try to make him feel like a moron for doing so. Just let him pin your arms and don't fight back and after a minute if he is still doing it say something out loud so the entire class can hear like "did you come here to learn BJJ or just sit on top of girls to feel better about yourself?"

Whenever I roll with a girl, unless she is a black-belt I'm going to use absolutely no strength/all technique and focus on working transitions without finishes so that the girl can benefit from the roll as much as me. Then if she makes a really bad mistake I can gently catch her with a sub and give her plenty of chances to escape and if she doesn't know how, I'll coach her. Helps her improve as a fighter, helps me improve my coaching, and helps improve the training environment.

BJJ is about learning and growing as a team, assholes like that guy you were training with are looked down on at are academy. You pull that shit at my school, your next roll is going to be against a certified killer who is going to run a clinic on you and crank subs like it's the ADCC world finals to teach you a lesson.

Sorry to hear about your experience, don't let it get you down and keep training strong!

Thanks! Really Appreciate this post!! If he is in mount has both of my arms and isn't going for anything, I totally agree, I think I can just lay there and wait. Um, you "got" me, now go for something already so we can move on and keep training!

World finals and teach you a lesson! haha! Someone else mentioned that specifically he watched out for his girlfriend and she didn't train with these types of guys. In my case, there are only usually 5 or so of us, so I don't have this luxury. All of this is gonna pay off on the mat though! I am so ready!

Cheers!

 

[trianglegrrl]

Thanks for the reply!! I realize, I'm the one who didn't protect my arms.. And I guess he felt good for holding someone down, but I'm so ready now! I'm pumped up to train tonight! haha

Keep up that attitude and you'll be just fine.

 

[georgwilhelm**]

Why is resting in mount a douchebag move? I get that it's frustrating, but being patient and knowing when to work and when to rest is a big aspect of all combat sports.

This.
It's a pretty technical approach to wait if you can't get a submission and your opponent is exhausting himself with futile spazzy escape attempts (not saying TS was spazzy). I always do that when I get mount on a more athletic guy. After some time I will try to capitalize on his exhaustion and inability to use his energy efficiently. I think that's a very Gracie-esque attitude.

 

[Discipulus]

Not sure if you are just trying to nit-pick peoples posts or what my friend, but this is exactly what I said:

The thing about being "efficient' in training is understanding when using energy is truly going to benefit you.

There were some good recommendations in this thread, and if applied to someone of the same size/strength you will surely escape the position.

My advice was to not waste energy when at a massive size/strength disadvantage and I acknowledged some of the previous good suggestions posted prior to mine. Don't really get where you got the idea that I suggested she use strength to muscle her techniques.

Your advice seemed to boil down to: "Those subs would have worked against someone of the same size" and "Go apeshit on bigger people in a real fight when mounted, because there are no rules".

The first doesn't help her at all, and in fact is a commonly heard excuse for not being able to defeat larger people in rolling. If Marcelo Garcia's game was based around what would work for someone his own size, he wouldn't be so impressive.

The second is akin to the countless Youtube-fu experts who are convinced that BJJ is useless because a submission attempt or dominant position can be defeated with dirty street fighting tactics, when we all know that the same tactics are equally if not more applicable for the person in dominant position--in this case, a bigger person than the victim, and likely a stronger male attacker.

I wasn't nitpicking, but your advice wasn't very helpful for her in a real world application sense. Unless she wants to compete in absolute, you're probably right about the subs. But if she's concerned with self defense or absolute competition, then you didn't offer much to help her, other than an excuse for why she got controlled by the big guy, and some dubious advice for real encounters. And since, even if she doesn't care about street fighting or absolute divisions, she will almost certainly be rolling with this big guy again, she should learn to use the submissions best suited for the size difference. The fact is, some submissions are always going to be hard to get in that kind of matchup. She shouldn't try to Americana the guy from mount, for example--I've had that tried on my by tons of smaller guys, and it ain't no thing. I actually wait for it to be partially locked in so that I can bridge them to that side when their arms are too occupied with my arm to post.

Also, how did you get lateral dropped in your 4th class? Unless it's a competition class, 99% of BJJ training starts from the ground and they aren't going to allow white belts at most schools to train stand-up in the beginning because takedowns/trips can be really dangerous when people have poor technique.

I stood up, and my partner obliged. I've never been cautioned against standing, and in my last roll I ended up fighting grips on the feet for the last bit of it.

 

[richmFTW]

How are you shooting triangles from bottom mount?

lol thank you I was about to ask that myself

 

[trustdoesntrust]

In a tournament she'll go against girls her size/strength, so there shouldn't be any excuses for effective techniques not working when applied properly. There were some good recommendations in this thread, and if applied to someone of the same size/strength you will surely escape the position.

In the street, there are no rules - if a bigger/stronger guy is on top of you in mount, please by all means employ sharp elbows to the groin IMMEDIATELY to create space, followed by more groin attacks (up-kicks, twist-n-grab, punches, etc.). Hit em' where it hurts ladies, if that's the situation they deserve it and a lot worse.

What if she goes against a girl of similar weight but who's a lot stronger or who has heavy hips? What if she goes against a good wrestler? What if she tries to "foot drag" against some guy on the street and gets punched in the face?

The point is that you can't just dismiss a bigger person laying on top of you by calling them names ("douchebag") or excusing it because they didn't implement proper "technique." Bottom line: if you are a smaller girl and can routinely escape from mount against bigger guys, then you can escape against anybody. Ignoring the realities presented by your training partners is a good way to develop bad habits, and ensure that your jiu-jitsu will not be effective in a real situation.

 

[TheMMAnalyst]

Thanks! Really Appreciate this post!! If he is in mount has both of my arms and isn't going for anything, I totally agree, I think I can just lay there and wait. Um, you "got" me, now go for something already so we can move on and keep training!

World finals and teach you a lesson! haha! Someone else mentioned that specifically he watched out for his girlfriend and she didn't train with these types of guys. In my case, there are only usually 5 or so of us, so I don't have this luxury. All of this is gonna pay off on the mat though! I am so ready!

Cheers!

You've got exactly the right idea - sometimes I train with white-belts who are bigger than me and I don't feel like using strength and put myself in bad positions. They will usually just hold onto side-control or mount like they are going to die if they let go. I'll do nothing then after a minute say "OK, feel free to continue training at any time" and they will usually laugh and apologize, new people just forget that the goal is to learn and move, not hold positions with death-grips.

Keep up the good work, it all pays off down the road!

 

[Discipulus]

What if she goes against a girl of similar weight but who's a lot stronger or who has heavy hips? What if she goes against a good wrestler? What if she tries to "foot drag" against some guy on the street and gets punched in the face?

The point is that you can't just dismiss a bigger person laying on top of you by calling them names ("douchebag") or excusing it because they didn't implement proper "technique." Bottom line: if you are a smaller girl and can routinely escape from mount against bigger guys, then you can escape against anybody. Ignoring the realities presented by your training partners is a good way to develop bad habits, and ensure that your jiu-jitsu will not be effective in a real situation.

This is what I meant to say. Thank you.

You've got exactly the right idea - sometimes I train with white-belts who are bigger than me and I don't feel like using strength and put myself in bad positions. They will usually just hold onto side-control or mount like they are going to die if they let go. I'll do nothing then after a minute say "OK, feel free to continue training at any time" and they will usually laugh and apologize, new people just forget that the goal is to learn and move, not hold positions with death-grips.

Keep up the good work, it all pays off down the road!

This is the notion that I was disputing. It sounds to me like her opponent had worse cardio, and so used the mount position to rest before making his next move. Given that he apparently had complete control and dominance, I don't think he did anything wrong. He took advantage of his position, was patient, and used his weight effectively. That's not ignoring the "goal" of training BJJ. In fact, that is a big part of the goal of training BJJ. That's just good Jiu Jitsu.