BJJ prices becoming inflated?

woah....

I train at Xtreme Couture Toronto - I paid up front, 1 year and 3 month commitment and it works (total divided by the months) out to about $55 per month CDN and my buddy paid monthly on a year commitment and pays $75 a month . We have a full size work out area, caveman area, Sauna, large mat area, octagon and ring.

It is unlimited training in both Fitness (spinning, kettle boxing, yoga, etc) and MMA. There is all the general arts for MMA (kickboxing, muay thai, boxing, wrestling, bjj (gi and no gi)) All the instructors are reputable.. check out the website and the instructors...

That being said, my buddy trains under a Brown Belt and pays around $100 a month on a year commitment and can only train 2 or 3 times a week (can not remember). And they have no fitness area.

I dunno what the exchange rate is but that's seem like a deal.

Do you train with Marco Antico?
 
Price elasticity is relevant too, it's basically the measure of whether customers are able to forgoe a product when the price goes up, or whether they are willing to pay the increase.

If your BJJ instructor increased his prices by $10/month, would you still train there? How about $25? How about $50? $100? At what point would you say "screw this, it's getting too expensive" and go find somewhere else to train?

That's price elasticity.

I think instructors are getting good at the price elasticity stuff.

If I had to pay the price they are charging now, I would not train at all.

I am not even sure I can afford the next fee for grading as well.
 
Originally Posted by climax
woah....

I train at Xtreme Couture Toronto - I paid up front, 1 year and 3 month commitment and it works (total divided by the months) out to about $55 per month CDN and my buddy paid monthly on a year commitment and pays $75 a month . We have a full size work out area, caveman area, Sauna, large mat area, octagon and ring.

It is unlimited training in both Fitness (spinning, kettle boxing, yoga, etc) and MMA. There is all the general arts for MMA (kickboxing, muay thai, boxing, wrestling, bjj (gi and no gi)) All the instructors are reputable.. check out the website and the instructors...

That being said, my buddy trains under a Brown Belt and pays around $100 a month on a year commitment and can only train 2 or 3 times a week (can not remember). And they have no fitness area.

ask yourself. 75 a month for all those intructors, rent, and maintenanece.. Do the math in your head. What kind of salaries the coaches are getting.
 
hmm... okay I suppose. Until people realize what's happening and level of price elasticity diminishes because more quality grapplers are finding alternatives to lower the cost/price of training. most people don't give a shit about your name, logo or rules as long as you are legit. they just want to grapple and not pay out of the ass to do so.




straw man argument = fail

not really, the San Fernando Judo club charges about $25/month. I believe it is supported through the federation. IBJJF doesn't do this. Your right, SOME people don't care about the name, logo or rules... both others do and when its your business, your $ invested, your reputation on the line, you are going to make sure every corner is covered and believe it or not, little things like a logo and a website are things a serious gym owner must have.

Why don't you donate your time when your a black belt and teach people for $20/month? Im sure you can find a local park or some place to teach for such a low wage.

You gotta understand, I don't run a BJJ academy, I am just a student that pays $200/month to train with a big name. Those $200/month/student are the reason why he is one of the "rare" cases of instructor that teaches ALL classes, even beginners. there are 3 showers there. There is hired help to IMMEDIATELY clean the mats RIGHT AFTER training EVERY day. I know a few "cheap" places that are known for catching ringworm.

In short. You get what you pay for.
 
Enrollement makes all the difference. 20 students, not so good...120...good.


There are alot of ways these guys make money aside from enrollment think it over.

Tournaments, privates, seminars (both doing them and hosting them) day classes, night classes, possible mma, possible training public safety personnel, military, appearances in some cases, some may manage fighters in their gyms etc.... and so on. I think we are being short sided if we think they are making just the MEASLY $10k per month from the student population (100 student X $100) ...
 
some of you make it seem like such a big deal if a black belt has a DAY job and teaches at night...god forbid you have a black belt and a normal career...

how many of us are up at 7am to work...then go to jits at night?
 
not really, the San Fernando Judo club charges about $25/month. I believe it is supported through the federation. IBJJF doesn't do this.

I can drop in at Cahill's and train with Olympic level coaches and high level competitors for 10 bones a drop in or 40 a mo. no it's not supported by "the federation". I'd be surprised if the gym you mentioned is actually subsidized by the IJF. I'm gonna guess they are not. If you say they are, I gueeeess... I need proof of this to believe it's true. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing? Just curious..


Your right, SOME people don't care about the name, logo or rules... both others do and when its your business, your $ invested, your reputation on the line, you are going to make sure every corner is covered and believe it or not, little things like a logo and a website are things a serious gym owner must have.

Somehow our freestyle/greco club survived for years without the internets, a fancy web page, or a bunch of strict rules, rituals, and regulations.


In short. You get what you pay for.

A US greco roman Olympic wrestling coach. what a bargain for me :icon_chee


Why don't you donate your time when your a black belt and teach people for $20/month? Im sure you can find a local park or some place to teach for such a low wage.

I've put in more than my share of time, money and energy to the grappling community for half a decade as a wrestling coach. I personally never charged anyone a dime, and came out of my pocket plenty to make sure those kids had some grub after weigh ins, and gas to go to tourneys.



You gotta understand, I don't run a BJJ academy, I am just a student that pays $200/month to train with a big name. Those $200/month/student are the reason why he is one of the "rare" cases of instructor that teaches ALL classes, even beginners. there are 3 showers there. There is hired help to IMMEDIATELY clean the mats RIGHT AFTER training EVERY day. I know a few "cheap" places that are known for catching ringworm.

there's always going to a place for people who want elite personalized training and are willing to pay for it.

still.....

you can't tell me you don't read this and cringe just a little....

I think instructors are getting good at the price elasticity stuff.

If I had to pay the price they are charging now, I would not train at all.

I am not even sure I can afford the next fee for grading as well.
 
I can drop in at Cahill's and train with Olympic level coaches and high level competitors for 10 bones a drop in or 40 a mo. no it's not supported by "the federation". I'd be surprised if the gym you mentioned is actually subsidized by the IJF. I'm gonna guess they are not. If you say they are, I gueeeess... I need proof of this to believe it's true. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing? Just curious..

ill ask my friends for the info since i can tell you wont sleep right until you have closure on this. I wrestled in high school, till this day I can train with a few local colleges and just about ANY high school for FREE, wrestlers welcome bodies to train with but wrestling is another issue. You find a World class JIU JITSU coach that will teach for $40/month that's not living in Brazil and you have a case. Its simple supply and demand here. Ben Askren is giving a seminar for $40, and hes a GREAT wrestler, now you find me a great Jiu Jitsu guy with comparable accomplishments as Ben that will do the same. Again, your looking at it from one point of view. Everybody wants low rates, but in BJJ, at the moment, it just doesnt work that way. I WISH I could pay $40/month, but im not going to complain simply because i pay $200/month, why? Because I understand why the rates are so high and its really not that complicated. I get along with most of our affiliates, and I have been told that I can come train with them any time I want. does this mean im going to stop paying just because i can train for free somewhere else? i know you would take that chance in a heart beat. I know what im paying for.


Somehow our freestyle/greco club survived for years without the internets, a fancy web page, or a bunch of strict rules, rituals, and regulations.

Survived, sure. But how many of those guys training are looking to open their own club and make a good living off of it? BJJ is just run differently, i don't see why you cant understand that. You don't see wrestling businesses around do you? Why? Because the demand just isn't there. Every 10 or so miles there's now a BJJ school in SoCal, how many wrestling businesses are there? Wrestlers are now finding jobs at MMA schools and.... BJJ academies looking to implement takedowns into their game. Some colleges are fighting for funding to keep wrestling alive. Unfortunately wrestling is too tough for some people. In my academy there are doctors, lawyers and professionals that do this as their hobby. You gotta be in shape for wrestling, its a more physically demanding sport. If your resting, or taking up mat space, you get kicked out, in BJJ, your a paying customer and nobody is going to yell at you to get your ass off the mats, its bad business. Thats what you can't seem to understand, its a business, nobody is here to do anybody any favors. My instructor has many affiliated schools, I don't hear them complaining "Jean Jacques, why do I have to pay you this much money just to put your name on my website/window/pamphlet". They all run successful academies. It's their choice to be affiliated or not, but they chose to pay the fees because people DO care about the name. Does it change the way they teach? nope.



A US greco roman Olympic wrestling coach. what a bargain for me :icon_chee


Yes a bargain for you, the only side you seem to be thinking of. Either he has a primary job or he isn't making a great living off just that (compared to a successful BJJ instructor in the US) or hes satisfied.

here's some simple math

$40x100 students (are there that many training there?) = $4000
Does he pay to rent the place out?

$200x100 students (there are around 200 last i heard) = $20,000 a month....
Our instructor Pays to have a state of the art facility and regular daily maintenance, nobody likes ringworm. That cost money.

Which would you rather be making?

If your wrestling coach could charge more, he would.


I've put in more than my share of time, money and energy to the grappling community for half a decade as a wrestling coach. I personally never charged anyone a dime, and came out of my pocket plenty to make sure those kids had some grub after weigh ins, and gas to go to tourneys.


Your a generous man, but nobody is going to make sure a grown man has been fed or drive him to weigh ins. Are we talking about running a kids club or a business? I know tons of parents when I was in high school who were involved in many ways, for free, so what? Even a teacher who was not on the coaching staff (meaning no money) that loved wrestling and helped the coaches out and trained with us.




there's always going to a place for people who want elite personalized training and are willing to pay for it.


now your using your head.

i personally wouldnt go to a place that charges for "testing". but i know a near by academy that is still there and growing, all while charging for testing and a forced private. Part of the reason i don't or wont ever train there, but thats their biz and it seems to be working.
 
ill ask my friends for the info since i can tell you wont sleep right until you have closure on this.

blah blah blah

now your using your head.

sandwiched inbetween rude and greasy talk is you writing walls of crap to justify paying way too much money for your training.
 
sandwiched inbetween rude and greasy talk is you writing walls of crap to justify paying way too much money for your training.

what part was crap?

"paying too much money" is an opinion that I and others happen to disagree with you on. Understand that, at least.
 
sandwiched inbetween rude and greasy talk is you writing walls of crap to justify paying way too much money for your training.

He actually made a pretty reasonable and intelligent arguement. I think you're the one bing rude and the one writing a bunch of crap.
 
some of you make it seem like such a big deal if a black belt has a DAY job and teaches at night...god forbid you have a black belt and a normal career...

how many of us are up at 7am to work...then go to jits at night?

For what it's worth, I will probably do this when I am a little older and have a black belt.
 
Not everybody in NY charges a lot. I am not gonna give away prices, but if people really look and compare instruction VS. Belt Rank, which is a very small indication of teaching ability, they will find good schools and very affordable rates....for NY that is.
 
some of you make it seem like such a big deal if a black belt has a DAY job and teaches at night...god forbid you have a black belt and a normal career...

how many of us are up at 7am to work...then go to jits at night?


There is a little more to running a school then showing up for class like the students do. The instructor has to be the first there, last to leave. They have to be there for every class, everyday. They have to do all the paperwork, all the marketing, handle all the new enrollments. They have to maintain the gym if they aren't big enough to have employees.

Running a school is a full time job, often of the more then 40 hours a week type. So yes, I don't think its fair to expect someone to go to their dayjob at 7am, then teach classes till 9:00 or 10:00, and not get home till 11:00 every single weekday, then spend the weekends catching up on all the paperwork that comes with running a business.
 
For those of you who don't understand...you probably will eventually quit. For those of you who don't quit you'll learn that your experiences are priceless. For those of you who take full advantage of what you have and what your "paying" for you'll never regret it.

For those of you who never make it to black belt, never teach, never try to make people happy, never try to motivate individuals every day, never try to help someone lose 60+ lbs and succeed, never get together with 50+ people at a park that you didn't even know a couple of years ago, never help someone become a champion in anything, who never laugh and become friends with people you would have brushed off before, who never will make a new life friend that will support you, who will never continue with the path you chose to do and will probably quit on yourself.

You will then never understand the actual worth of what you are getting. Give me a $1,000,000 right now and tell me I have to give it all up. Give up my black belt. Give up my "new" friends, give up my experiences. And tell me I can have all of the money I spent in the past to get there. I'll be the first one to tell you to f*ck off.

The people who don't want that are the people I don't want.
 
not really, the San Fernando Judo club charges about $25/month. I believe it is supported through the federation. IBJJF doesn't do this. Your right, SOME people don't care about the name, logo or rules... both others do and when its your business, your $ invested, your reputation on the line, you are going to make sure every corner is covered and believe it or not, little things like a logo and a website are things a serious gym owner must have.

Why don't you donate your time when your a black belt and teach people for $20/month? Im sure you can find a local park or some place to teach for such a low wage.

You gotta understand, I don't run a BJJ academy, I am just a student that pays $200/month to train with a big name. Those $200/month/student are the reason why he is one of the "rare" cases of instructor that teaches ALL classes, even beginners. there are 3 showers there. There is hired help to IMMEDIATELY clean the mats RIGHT AFTER training EVERY day. I know a few "cheap" places that are known for catching ringworm.

In short. You get what you pay for.

Hey I train at Carlos Machado's school in Dallas Texas. He teaches ALL THE GI classes every level (beginner and masters). We have at least 10 black belts in the school and 3 black belts aside from Carlos help teach the classes but the main instruction is Carlos. We pay $185 a month for his instruction at the Masters level. If you want to do just 150$ that is just for beginners and 6 month contract. Only thing I disagree with is the 3 year contract at masters level, which is a little ridiculous but I can understand why he does that.

Now he has a fairly large school with large locker room and 2 good bathrooms but no showers. Students volunteer to clean the mats afterwards and he also employs 2 full time employees to run his day to day business. Classes are 6 days a week and also have No Gi and MT/Kickboxing classes. What do you guys think?
 
He actually made a pretty reasonable and intelligent arguement. I think you're the one bing rude and the one writing a bunch of crap.

we were fine until he started in with "I know you wont sleep at night until I answer your question" and "now you're using your head". I found it to be condescending and said so. maybe you should just learn to mind your own business.
 
we were fine until he started in with "I know you wont sleep at night until I answer your question" and "now you're using your head". I found it to be condescending and said so. maybe you should just learn to mind your own business.

Last time I checked it was posted on a public forum and viewable to anyone that opened the thread. If you wanted a private conversation with him you should have pm'ed him. Then I would not be able to see it, therefore be "minding my own business".
 
we were fine until he started in with "I know you wont sleep at night until I answer your question" and "now you're using your head". I found it to be condescending and said so. maybe you should just learn to mind your own business.

How much is Denny charging?
 
I will just comment on the whole "judo is free" idea. In japan and korea there are private judo dojos that charge about the same ammount as a bjj gym does. Not everyone wants to train or trains at a university/ymca/ect..
 

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