BJJ prices becoming inflated?

Just a thought, but Yoga is a far more developed than BJJ and has been around for hundreds of years. The studio space is similar. The overhead is similar. But you would never see a yoga studio charging $200 a month.

I think insurance makes a HUGE difference here.
 
To all complainers, I like to see you getting your BB in BJJ and then go and teach that amount of hours/classes per week and charge a lower fees.

then we see who are the real hypocrites!

Good point, but they teach for a lot less back home in Brazil, even if you account for currency exchange and lower cost of living there. It's not just about revenue and costs, it's also about the culture, and about the demand in the market, and the nature of the customer.

Did you read this interview with Cyborg Abreu?:

Inside BJJ
Speaking of being paid, is it difficult to be a world class competitor and still make a living? How do you do it?

Roberto Abreu
Yes, here in the U.S. it
 
I think insurance makes a HUGE difference here.

I'm not sure it would be any higher for one than the other. Both places need liability insurance. It's not like people can sue the instructor if they get hurt in an arm bar, unless the school was dumb enough to forget to make the student sign that little waiver.
 
Everyone is saying any cost is justifiable, no matter how high, if that is what it costs to run a school. At some point that analysis no longer makes sense. If the costs of running a school create a situation where each student must pay $500, you're not likely to have many students. But is $200 a month too high? For a lot of people, it is. That's a car payment.

BJJ is not some secret amazing magic. It's taught by dudes just like you, that have been doing it a long time. Anyone can do it. It is obviously not hard to teach at all, if the instructor is legit. It's not a chore. You just teach what youi know and do all the time, every day, and have been for years. Probably one reason everyone and their mother is opening a school. Blue belts open schools around here. In the end, a bunch of guys can throw a mat down in a basement and do the exact same thing.

Just a thought, but Yoga is a far more developed than BJJ and has been around for hundreds of years. The studio space is similar. The overhead is similar. But you would never see a yoga studio charging $200 a month.

How many hours of practice does it take to earn a black belt in BJJ?

And how many hours of practice does it take to learn yoga well enough to teach a yoga class?

The studio space is not similar, yoga classes are usually held in aerobics rooms at health clubs, you couldn't have BJJ in a room like that, you need grappling mats which are obviously much thicker and more expensive than yoga mats. You usually need a dedicated space for a BJJ school and the instructor is paying the rent and utilities. People want to have BJJ classes offered twice a day, six days a week, who goes to yoga enough to need that many classes?

Really bad comparison IMO.
 
Lloyd Irvin is running seminars teaching people to become MMA millionaires.

There was one last weekend. Apparently Lloyd says tuition should be $200/month. somebody balked and said there was only purple belt instruction at their academy. Lloyd says that's worth $149.99/month.

Apparently, the deciding factor is a calculation of how much you will make versus how many students you will lose.

I know business is business, but jeeze...

What is the threshold? What do you do if you just can't afford it. What if it just seems like too much? I'm all for loyalty, but it cuts both ways.
 
^Hey Redaxe, I have been to jiu jitsu clubs in Brazil that are run exactly that way. The mats are either put down at the beginning of class or it is a room that is used for wrestling, BJJ, judo, etc.

EDIT to add: One month unlimited at my yoga club is $145 CDN>
 
How many hours of practice does it take to earn a black belt in BJJ?

And how many hours of practice does it take to learn yoga well enough to teach a yoga class?

The studio space is not similar, yoga classes are usually held in aerobics rooms at health clubs, you couldn't have BJJ in a room like that, you need grappling mats which are obviously much thicker and more expensive than yoga mats. You usually need a dedicated space for a BJJ school and the instructor is paying the rent and utilities. People want to have BJJ classes offered twice a day, six days a week, who goes to yoga enough to need that many classes?

Really bad comparison IMO.

Fair enough. But a YOGA STUDIO is usually a stand alone business - unless yiou take it at 24 hr. fitness or something. But I'm obviously not talking about that. The space is actually very similar - often located in the exact same type of place like a strip mall. The only difference would be the mats, which is a one time cost. Also, if its hot yoga, they keep those rooms at 105 degrees, that's gotta cost something.

A qualified yoga instructor usually has been training a very long time. Richard Freeman does not even accept students into his teacher training program unless they have been practicing 5 years already.

My point is that there is no other fitness based sort of activity that charges as much as BJJ. Boxing gyms charge pennies in comparison. Pilates, capoereia, dance studios, etc. None charge $200/mo.

But this is to-for-tat. In the end, you pay whatever if it's worth it to you.
 
^Hey Redaxe, I have been to jiu jitsu clubs in Brazil that are run exactly that way. The mats are either put down at the beginning of class or it is a room that is used for wrestling, BJJ, judo, etc.

EDIT to add: One month unlimited at my yoga club is $145 CDN>

Yeah I looked into yoga in the same town as my BJJ gym... was over $100 for unlimited.
 
Lloyd Irvin is running seminars teaching people to become MMA millionaires.

There was one last weekend. Apparently Lloyd says tuition should be $200/month. somebody balked and said there was only purple belt instruction at their academy. Lloyd says that's worth $149.99/month.

Apparently, the deciding factor is a calculation of how much you will make versus how many students you will lose.

I know business is business, but jeeze...

What is the threshold? What do you do if you just can't afford it. What if it just seems like too much? I'm all for loyalty, but it cuts both ways.

Yeah, that's how it works when you sell any good or service. You just try to maximize the factor of units sold times profit per unit.

Lloyd's prices are ridiculous though, I don't think anyone pays the "sticker price" for anything with him. He claims to charge like $1,500 an hour for private lessons, but I'm sure if you call him to ask about it, there will automatically be some kind of one-time-only special discount just for you.
 
Fair enough. But a YOGA STUDIO is usually a stand alone business - unless yiou take it at 24 hr. fitness or something. But I'm obviously not talking about that. The space is actually very similar - often located in the exact same type of place like a strip mall. The only difference would be the mats, which is a one time cost. Also, if its hot yoga, they keep those rooms at 105 degrees, that's gotta cost something.

A qualified yoga instructor usually has been training a very long time. Richard Freeman does not even accept students into his teacher training program unless they have been practicing 5 years already.

My point is that there is no other fitness based sort of activity that charges as much as BJJ. Boxing gyms charge pennies in comparison. Pilates, capoereia, dance studios, etc. None charge $200/mo.

But this is to-for-tat. In the end, you pay whatever if it's worth it to you.

OK, fair enough, if we're comparing apples to apples and looking at high-quality, dedicated yoga instruction, that can be expensive too.

Gotta make sure we're looking at the same markets though. The only places I've ever heard of BJJ being over $200/month are in Manhattan and urban Los Angeles.

I pay $120/month for unlimited BJJ in Seattle.

By comparison, the Crossfit gym here is $175/month for unlimited classes (includes Sunday yoga classes).

I'm not sure what my point is, except that I don't think that BJJ is really overpriced for what you get compared to other fitness and martial arts services.
 
My point is that there is no other fitness based sort of activity that charges as much as BJJ. Boxing gyms charge pennies in comparison. Pilates, capoereia, dance studios, etc. None charge $200/mo.

Sure they do, at least for the time you would expect to have on the mat in a martial arts class.

In fact the nearest dance studio does charge $200 / month, which is for 5 hours of instruction per week. They do have cheaper plans, going right down to 30 mins / week. They are not out of step with the fees from other dance schools in the area either.

I pulled up a couple of Hot Yoga studios in the area, $120 & $150 / month for unlimited. You could buy x visit punch cards as well that worked out to about $10-$15 / visit depending on how many you bought.

So I'd say we are comparable, in my area those are both MORE then the BJJ gyms. The only difference is they have plans to accommodate far more casual visits where as the martial arts schools are generally just "unlimited" in terms of memberships.
 
Sure they do, at least for the time you would expect to have on the mat in a martial arts class.

In fact the nearest dance studio does charge $200 / month, which is for 5 hours of instruction per week. They do have cheaper plans, going right down to 30 mins / week. They are not out of step with the fees from other dance schools in the area either.

I pulled up a couple of Hot Yoga studios in the area, $120 & $150 / month for unlimited. You could buy x visit punch cards as well that worked out to about $10-$15 / visit depending on how many you bought.

So I'd say we are comparable, in my area those are both MORE then the BJJ gyms. The only difference is they have plans to accommodate far more casual visits where as the martial arts schools are generally just "unlimited" in terms of memberships.

Then BJJ prices are not inflated there, or maybe anywhere i guess? I dunno. I pay $200/mo here for bjj, which seems ridiculous to me - but I still pay it. I've been doing yoga for almost 5 years here at a variety of places. While it is pricy, no studio charges $200/mo. I also boxed here, and my girlfriend teaches out of a hoity toity dance studio. I have a friend that does capoeira. All charge less than $200/mo. Maybe it is a regional thing.
 
Do most people agree that training BJJ once or twice a week isn't going to really cut it? And that too many training program options will bring in droves of guys who will train hard for 2-4 months and then just quit?

The instructors are probably looking for guys who will train 3-5 times a week and be committed. So they set up their programs for those guys, with unlimited training and a long-term contract. It's not just about charging a lot, it's about keeping the dedicated ones and designing your program based on that.

And for obvious reasons, schools in big expensive cities have 3x the overhead and this shows in the pricing.

If you are being taught by a BB, if there are other advanced students that are helpful, if class sizes are small/you get individual attention, if there is no-gi and MMA, $200-250 month for unlimited classes could be a good deal.
 
If you are being taught by a BB, if there are other advanced students that are helpful, if class sizes are small/you get individual attention, if there is no-gi and MMA, $200-250 month for unlimited classes could be a good deal.

What if there was a gym that included all that, but also had a great muay thai program, extremely nice facilities including showers, lockers, and a small weight area. Would you pay $400/mo?
 
I think insurance makes a HUGE difference here.

I can actually speak directly to this, as my day job is as a commercial insurance underwriter (the guy who decides how the policy will be set up, what coverages will be offered, and what the rates will be). In our eyes, there is often little difference between a BJJ gym and a Yoga gym in our thought process. In fact, since the qualifications for fitness instructors are far shakier I would feel more reassured offering coverage to a BJJ black belt in many cases. You also don't have quite the worry about an overweight 50-something who's been inactive for most of their lives popping something out of place. Waivers are also typically more stringently required in martial arts environments, and although they are almost completely useless in actual court, most people don't know that and wouldn't sue because they think the waiver leaves them without that option.

Do the Jiu-Jistu governing organizations offer limited medical coverage while at a sanctioned event or training session? I know that the US Judo Assoc. does
 
I dunno. I guess it is expensive. But remember BJJ is not really non profit because it seems most of these instructors do it for a living to support themselves or feed a family.

Whereas it seems like the nonprofit Judo guys usually have another job and kind of teach as a hobby in there free time.

The tradeoff is that these BJJ guys are training full time (or should be) and that knowledge and experience should be transferred to the students more than a guy who is only training a couple hours a day (because they have another job) and that's what you are paying the extra $$$ for.

I don't know if that's right but that's what I've kind of observed.
 
If you have a problem with the price take your business and money elsewhere. Supply and demand for quality instruction.
 
Do most people agree that training BJJ once or twice a week isn't going to really cut it? And that too many training program options will bring in droves of guys who will train hard for 2-4 months and then just quit?

The instructors are probably looking for guys who will train 3-5 times a week and be committed. So they set up their programs for those guys, with unlimited training and a long-term contract. It's not just about charging a lot, it's about keeping the dedicated ones and designing your program based on that.

And for obvious reasons, schools in big expensive cities have 3x the overhead and this shows in the pricing.

If you are being taught by a BB, if there are other advanced students that are helpful, if class sizes are small/you get individual attention, if there is no-gi and MMA, $200-250 month for unlimited classes could be a good deal.

It's always nice to paint self serving actions in an altruistic light but the bottom line is the bottom line. There are other ways to weed out the less dedicated but they do not make for as comfortable a living. And it's nice to have a comfortable living doing what you love.
 
What if there was a gym that included all that, but also had a great muay thai program, extremely nice facilities including showers, lockers, and a small weight area. Would you pay $400/mo?

Some people might, others wouldn't. The people who can afford it and feel it is worth it, can go to the premium gyms and pay a premium for it. Meanwhile people on a budget go to smaller gyms that have less amenities and less class offerings per week. There's definitely some room for price discrimination in the market, and I think we'll see more of it once it gets to the point where there are multiple options for BJJ in every major city.

I think they already have this in L.A.--for example you can pay like $250 to go train with Kron, or you can pay less than $100 to go train with a brown belt who has a day job.
 
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