bjj positioning

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Gavin LeFever, Sep 30, 2005.

  1. what is your take on each position? i'd like to get some insights, or different points of view on this. i know the topic is fairly broad but answer how ever you think fits. i'm thinking in terms of how you feel in x position or when here, you're concerned about this hand and working for this or that. whatever you've got.

    for me,

    standing - a lot of my wrestling takedowns put me in a bad position, even if done correctly, IE chokes and ... chokes or guard. so i'm working on some new stuff. problem is bjjs stand up so stiff it's often hard to set things up. it's a work in progress.

    in closed guard - cat and mouse. some people can keep me totally on defense while in their guard and others i like to stand and stack them for a pass but getting that knee in there is something i need to work on. also, if i try the first pass i learned witht he getting an arm in there it's triangle city, but i slip out and get armbarred.

    in an open guard - i stand back up and grab a foot for a sub or throw it hard to the side and dive in for side control, but mustly i'm in closed guards.

    pulling guard - i need sweep work but that's because i'm new to this. i drilled one, then we rolled and going for the move you just drilled never works. oh well. some try the one arm out escape so i go for the one submission i know (triangle) and they turn and eventually pass since i've stacked myself.

    in half guard - i learned a nice tech to slip into full mount or scarf and it works fairly well. i dont get here often.

    pulling half guard - i always tuck in to avoid chokes or getting stretched out if i can help it. the back door escape is solid until they get a feel for it. the side "shuck" escape is my second choice but nice because you can finish with a hook.

    side control - i keep my knee tight to his hip to block him pulling guard but i often forget this when focusing somewhere else so i need to work on that. i honestly dont know much offense from here other than keeping him flat and tired or slipping into mount.

    in side control - i'll try to slip a knee in for guard but most know to block this always. my "shuck" escape form here is weak but i just need more time rolling with it. there's another that involves me turning in and into the position as if i just shot for a leg and he caught me. hard to finish this in guys with good defense or base but one of the blue belts was showing me to just fall back into guard. moving from side controlled to guard is good, but so hard to go to my back as a wrestler... i cant even sleep on my back.

    i know there are more positions but i havent been in them yet.
     
  2. Big Red

    Big Red Green Belt

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    You not used mount or knee on belly yet? They are my favourites from top position. From bottom, I like butterfly guard, grasshopper guard & spider guard.
     
  3. Truculent

    Truculent Orange Belt

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    yeah I love knee on stomach; its basically a mount without the whole getting bucked off, much easier to balance and your opponent can't stall you by holding you down as easily seeing as he can't breath as well. There are many more advantages; plus it offers great opportunities in MMA as well.
     
  4. Kawlinz

    Kawlinz How do I change my Custom User Title?

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    Having a scarf hold on someone is pretty much game over I think. Any escapes from the scarf hold from the bottom that I've seen have been oversights from the person holding it, from what I've seen.
     
  5. Cojofl

    Cojofl Brown Belt

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    You can say the same thing about any escape from anywhere
     
  6. VTJas81

    VTJas81 Blue Belt

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    Side control is the best position to hold someone down

    Mount is pretty easy to escape out of compared to side and N/S
     
  7. stephensharp

    stephensharp Brown Belt

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    I prefer side control. My judo background makes it perfect for immobilizing opponents, and once I'm there, I pretty much always manage to slap a sub on, even if I have to grind the guy into the mat to do it.

    For a good sub, slap a cross face on, turning the face away from you, then grip the gi or the shoulder on the far side to keep it that way. Cup the far tricep, and leverage your elbow into their solarplexes to get the arm up. Keep your knee in the hip or on it.

    If your imagination doesn't run wild from there, you're in the wrong sport.

    Don't cop knee on face unless it's socially acceptable at your club/gym/school. Because, well... otherwise you're a dick.

    ps- Any escape from scarf hold means game over. Don't rely on it, as you're basically giving up your back... BJJ allows a lot more things to escape than Judo, where that hold is the be all and end all of pins.
     
  8. honestly forgot mount. i've seen knee on belly but that feels fairly easy to roll through than side control.

    mounting - i dont have offense here yet so i usually ride the neck with my forearm or try to keep them busy with some crappy variation of a keylock. if i'm rolling with bigger guys, it's easy for them to roll me which is why in wrestling you always want your body perpendicular (90* angle) to theirs. once i get some good offense here my mount will get better.

    mounted - i try to tuck and frame elbows but in live i can bareley get this off. also, the upa or 12 o'clock roll is also hard to get if they have any decent base whatsoever.
     
  9. Big Red

    Big Red Green Belt

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    During sparring at class it is not very easy, but not too bad. However, if sued in MMA or competition where people don't give a damn about putting all their weight on you this is a really good way of securing your opponent.

    I hate scarf hold, as soon as your opponents goes for a sub you can escape, but most bitches just hold you there. I'm sure tournaments do not score scarf hold but if they transferred from side mount to scarf hold, they got a few points that they can stall with. Scarf hold IMO is a stalling position. I don't know any good subs where you can obtain good leveage to apply a move. Say a Kimura from here, you want to apply pressure by leaning forward, as soon as you do that they pop out. It is just my view, but scarf hold is a bitch move.
     
  10. i thought scarf was mainly for securing them if they have a leg trapped until you free your leg and get side control or rotate your knee across their belly and into a mount.

    i know i went off on a personal tangent but what i was aiming for was like,

    when mounting, i'm trying to work for X. like making them give me an arm for armbar. like, what is your objective from each position and how you like to achieve that.

    when in guard, i'm trying to pass so i stand and try to make space and pop a knee inside.

    when side controlling, what should i work for? atm i just try to faint a keylock and then pop a knee over for mount, even though i dont know much from mount, i know getting there is good.
     
  11. Kawlinz

    Kawlinz How do I change my Custom User Title?

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    Nothing from scarf hold? Keylock and Armbar with the legs, thurst the hips upwards in either case. After you secure his wrist, there's nothing they can do, and securing the wrist is quite easy.

    And by game over with scarf hold... I mean the person holding it has to do something *durastically* wrong in order to lose it. You should be able to apply a keylock or an armbar without letting go of your tight grip around his neck, or without lifing your head high enough for them to grab your head with their legs. For people who are extra flexible, make sure you maintain a tight hold, so when they bring their legs up, thay have to do some serious compacting of their neck to even try to hook you..... it's easy to stay on top but they can't keep their legs close to you forever without bringing them down for air once in a while.

    Also if you're doing gi you can easily feed the collar on (let's say) his left side to your right hand that's behind his head, for an even better grip. Since I've improved my gripping, I haven't had anyone escape out the back, the head is just too big when you secure it porperly to fit or force it's way out.

    Scarf hold is almost my gameplan now. People in my class when we're just sparring usually tap when I've secured it.

    ---

    Knee on head is awesome. I trained in TJJ (which was more self defense oriented) so some stuff we accept when that most BJJ places I've heard of don't. Once my instructor put his elbow into my cheek and put all his weight down on my... I honestly can't remember a time when I was in more pain.

    Head on knee, slams from guard (just no head spikes), pressure points and stuff. We also didn't train on anything like spider guard because 'it's an invitation to get your face stomped' :p so take what I say for whatever it's worth to you.
     
  12. Big Red

    Big Red Green Belt

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    I'm in no position to give advice but I'm a newbie so I concentrate on trying to get good positioning first. If I'm in sidecontrol I try get mount on go to north south & go for an armbar. So far I haven't come cross much side control offense aside from a kimura or some gi choke I can never work. I don't really like side contol so I try & hop to K.O.B. or mount.
     
  13. my problem is that i jumped into the middle of everything so i'm lacking a lot of basics and fundamentals. the way they trian is that they have a cariculum and it cycles through lessons so it will come around to lesson 1 soon and i'll catch up.

    my goal is to have 3 moves or escapes from every position. this is how we teach new guys how to wrestle. if we drill one escape and then roll right after you'll never pull off that move, but if you have 3 then you can faint and swap and pull something off.

    why do you like mount over side control? i was asking my bjj class about which dominant position is the best, but most said it was prefrense. i just feel mount is easy to get rolled since your base is on him, unless you've got the option of punching him in the face or some such.
     
  14. Big Red

    Big Red Green Belt

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    I sort of agree, though sour sitting on someones chest, it doesn't necessarily mean you are secure. I've not mastered my base but work on it alot, because used to just get Upa rolled every damn time I obtained mount. I'm not very fast so I find it diffucult to go for subs whilst keeping my hips down & securing my opponent in side control. With mount, I find I can stay in the position & go for chokes, locks & wait patiently for openings to other subs whilst mainting control of them. It is horses for courses, people have their different views.
     
  15. if you have trouble then you're not flatting him out well enough, most likely. most try to tuck into you trying to get their forehead into your hip, say your right hip.. catch him with a cross face from your right hand and you can sort of sprawl that right hip down to the mat as if you're defending a takedown. remove the space he wants to use and then your left arm should under hook under his right armpit. use your weight and base to keep him flat. i even like my forehead in his right shoulder or on his neck to give me more leverage and control.

    some think using the head is a little rough but it's just as worthy as any other limb. just dont grind hard or anything, because it's not needed.
     
  16. stephensharp

    stephensharp Brown Belt

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    I loved scarf, but again, I had a Judo background, and could kill with it. VS. some real BJJ guys, though, having just the "bend the arm back and trap it with your leg" move is not sufficient. I've USED it, it works, but you're not gonna tap a purple or even a good blue with it... Primarily, it's dependant on flattening the guy out, and a good BJJ guy is gonna fight that the whole time. Since you can't really transition, you have one choice for a sub (unless you want to meathead a neck crank, which is also low percentage), it just doesn't get the job done.

    That's my experience.
     
  17. is it a neck crank to walk their near arm up on your hip and eventually across their throat? i try to tuck my arm to block them at the elbow with my bicept and get my elbow behind their head just to gas them and maintain position. easier to handle better bjjers when they're really tired.

    i dont want to be coming off as a douche, but a little intensity even when rolling in practice is good, imo.
     
  18. Big Red

    Big Red Green Belt

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    I use my head alot, its why I get so many gi scratches. I don't do head on head stuff which some people do. That isn't my problem, I have the position fine, I just don't find subbing is as my mobility isn't good from that position.

    As for someone trying to get their head in your hip? That is bad technique IMO, that isnt an escape, you should be shrimping back to guard or spinning out & round to get your chest on their back. If I'm thinking what you explained, doesn't being turned on your side with your head by their hip leave you open for an armbar, easier mount attempt & sweep you round & take your back.

    http://www.bjj.org/techniques/bjjfighter/gi/side/escape/

    ^ That is the escape I prefer.
     
  19. if you tuck in getting your forehead on his hip you can get both hands on his far foot and come out the back or take his hips and drive as if you're finishing a shot. if he defends then you fall back to guard. this is better done from half guard but if you tuck tight you protect your neck and arms.
     
  20. DirectDrive

    DirectDrive Black Belt

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    got the mount - i don't mind having mount, but subs are limited so i don't tend to try too hard to mount anyone.

    mounted - i usually don't mind this since i can usually get to half guard form here. i'd rather be mounted than in side control. keeping the arms tucked in tight to stop the arm attacks and feet tight against my butt to stop the grapevine.

    in someones side control - i'm just trying to get my guard back or escape and making sure i don't get cross faced.

    someone in my side control - i am usually watching my base and working the far arm or a choke.

    north south on someone - never really go there unless i have to to keep them from escaping or i need to go there to finish a choke.

    in someones north south - just trying to escape or reverse.

    knee on stomach - i seldom go here, but if i do i'm looking for a kimura or choke.

    knee on my stomach - making sure i don't put my hand on their knee and giving up the kimura and trying real escapes.

    someone in my closed guard - i'm looking to get to a get to half guard or an open guard. i see no reason to be here.

    in someones closed guard - trying to open them up and get a pass or an ankle lock.

    someone in my half guard - this is where i want to be. i am looking for sweeps or subs from here.

    in someones halg guard - just trying to pass.

    standing guard pass on someone - trying to feel them out and keep the pressure on them so they don't get time to settle in and sweep.

    someone doing a standing guard pass - i'm going for an ankle lock or del la riva guard or spider sweeps.
     

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