BJJ lineage

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by fighting.spirit, Jul 21, 2010.

  1. fighting.spirit

    fighting.spirit Yellow Belt

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    1. How relevant/ important is one's BJJ lineage? Is it only important in terms of belt legitimacy?

    2. If one is being trained by "E" at the affiliate school of well known instructor "D", but only gets promoted by "D". Does his lineage go:

    A-->--B-->C-->D-->E--> Me

    or

    A-->B-->C-->D--> Me

    God this looks ridiculous.

    Thanks guys.
     
  2. Cojofl

    Cojofl Brown Belt

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    I find the way styles and approach carry down through lineage to be interesting eg Carlson vs Barra vs Helio style. As long as everyone in your lineage got their belts legitimately, how far you are from the source is irrelevant.

    On 2, i don't know.
     
  3. Fedorzilla

    Fedorzilla Brown Belt

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    I think your ability and knowledge are what determine your legitimacy. I would love to say I have a great lineage, but I'm more of a mutt.

    Mine is all messed up

    Helio > Rickson > Behring > Fernando Yamasaki > Luis Pantoja > Me (no belt given)
    Helio > Rolls > Romero Jacare > me (got blue belt from Alliance)
    Back to Yamasaki (same instructor, but again no belt given)
    Carlos Gracie > Rilion Gracie > Tony Eduardo Lima > me (Shanghai GB Affiliate)

    I think the only way I could be more F'd is if I left this school and got my purple belt from Eddie Bravo, then found Terere to get my brown and then tracked down Nocturno for my blackbelt.

    I'm in the same situation with the affiliate school, because there are really 2 purple belts that teach most of the classes, but Tony handles the promotions. I think it should be the guy who promotes you, but that might not be the general viewpoint.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2010
  4. platfox

    platfox Silver Belt

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    Interesting topic. I'm at an affiliate school and I was promoted by a Gracie that I've only met twice and he probably doesn't even know my name. Its weird that my lineage wouldn't include my instructor that I've spent countless hours training with.
     
  5. fighting.spirit

    fighting.spirit Yellow Belt

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    No doubt. What I meant from "belt legitimacy", though, was in terms of whom you got it from. Make sense? I'm sure it's not important when it comes to ability and knowledge. Having a great lineage does sound cooler though, haha.

    Hahah. Party on, friend! As long as you're training and improving, who gives a damn?!
     
  6. Butler

    Butler Orange Belt

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    You could argue that you are in fact better off than someone who has only trained with one lineage.

    @OP - It's an interesting question, as one day I'm pretty sure I'll be getting my belt from my instructor's instructor too.
     
  7. fighting.spirit

    fighting.spirit Yellow Belt

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    Indeed. At our school, we can only be promoted by a Gracie that comes down every once in a while and observes/ tests the guys he intends to promote.
     
  8. TalkShowOnMute

    TalkShowOnMute dancingonthecorpsesashes

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    In listed lineage, I would think it should only contain promoters and promotees. Not list every catalyst to a promotion. If it were different I would have a hundred people to list who have helped my progress.

    If someone were so inclined to list a lineage, they should simply list who promoted whom in a linear path from known origin to end.

    I don't know how important this is, though. If anyone asks me, I just tell them Draculino, because that is the only guy I've trained with. Everything else is relation by proxy, and less relevant IMO.
     
  9. Cash Bill 52

    Cash Bill 52 Brown Belt

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    Cesar has a black belt from Carlinhos but he also has one from Robson. (Renzo's father)

    Carlinhos really wanted Cesar to be a GB school. I don't know all the details, but Cesar has certificates from both.

    That's why I just have Cesar's name in my signature.

    It could go Maeda>Carlos>(Carlos Jr. or Robson)>Cesar>Me
     
  10. koolinkunming

    koolinkunming Silver Belt

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    I agree. How far from the source is irrelevant, if the instruction is as close and tight as can be from the source ideally. Now to be frank, I don't care if it came from Helio or Carlos, as I would gladly learn both for the sport side that is attributed to Carlos and the self-defense/street fighting side of Helio. Both are fine and can and will do damage if it came right down to it, win or lose.

    At my age and size, I don't see myself becoming a world champ at any weight class, and I don't see myself getting into many street fights. I want a good mix of both, and become proficient at both, regardless of how long it takes.
     
  11. supersuk

    supersuk White Belt

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    Honestly, why do people care so much?
    Also, if your lineage mattered that much stylistically, are people able to tell from by watching you where your lineage came from?

    IMO, its just for people to feed their own egos by name dropping or having students name drop you.
     
  12. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    I don't think anyone's saying it matters stylistically, but in a world where tons of people make up phony credentials, it's important to be able to verify someone's credibility.
     
  13. sleeps anywhere

    sleeps anywhere Yellow Belt

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    I recently trained in another state while I was on vacation and a purple belt wanted to know my lineage. I thought it curious that he questioned the legitimacy of my white belt.
     
  14. nkkny1

    nkkny1 Yellow Belt

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    hahaha
     
  15. supersuk

    supersuk White Belt

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    Do people keep a BJJ promotion tree like a family tree or something? Are official standardized certificates handed out? Phony credentials look just as real as real credentials imo. Best way to verify imo is to watch them or their students in action or roll with them.
     
  16. HEAVY GRAPPLER

    HEAVY GRAPPLER Brown Belt

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    And how does it work if your gym switches affiliations?

    I find myself in this situation - having received my blue belt from one instructor - I will (hopefully, someday) receive my purple from another.
     
  17. Tony Manifold

    Tony Manifold Brown Belt

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    I think part of it is being proud of where you came from. And BJJ is really like a giant family. I have an "in" at just about every Carlson Gracie school because of who my instructor is and who is instructor is. It goes a long way. I was training with one of Megaton's bb's on the weekend and he mentioned going to training at a school in cali one time and when he asked what he owed the instructor, the instructor was like, "My Friend...you are family. You are Humita".

    It isn't so much a lineage like say WC or Karate, it really is more like a family tree.
     
  18. supersuk

    supersuk White Belt

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    Ahhh so its more like a fraternity type of relation to you.
     
  19. virtuoso

    virtuoso Blue Belt

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    I think it really depends on the belt. I mean, if you're a purple, you wouldn't go:

    Lineage:
    A > B > C > D (Got my Blue)

    Different association:
    E > F > G > H (Got my purple)

    I think you would just stick with the lineage of the higher belt. Obviously, you deserved the purple, does where you got the blue really matter anymore? However, I am just a lowly white belt, so I'm not sure. It's just my opinion.
     
  20. koolinkunming

    koolinkunming Silver Belt

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    Good posts in this thread. I think that lineage from the source doesn't really matter. It's more or less the legitimacy of where it came from. Other martial arts have become so watered down that it doesn't really matter anymore. But to carry on what worked to kick ass and be effective is what matters. That's why bjj and judo still matter. They still work in hand to hand combat. You can still see lineage along with examples of it working in combat.
     

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