bjj legends vs today's bjj wizards

Its like any other sport. The athletes get better and better. They expand on the knowledge of their own teachers and in the end become better.

Marcelo did fight renzo at an adcc and for most of the fight renzo was a step behind and looked downright confused.
 
You can't compare 80s supercars to 90s supercars, you can't compare 90s supercars to recent supercars. The evolution of the technical, fitness, sport based, defensive and aggressive aspects of BJJ have evolved very quickly in a very short time in a similar way. As the understanding relevant to the sport has grown, so have the coaches and athletes. They didn't even have the rubber or X guards developed to the point they are now even 5 years ago. The comparison can't work because of the developmental differences.
 
Its like any other sport. The athletes get better and better. They expand on the knowledge of their own teachers and in the end become better.

Marcelo did fight renzo at an adcc and for most of the fight renzo was a step behind and looked downright confused.
 
I think two types of "Legends" would still do well.

The highly technical, innovative guys like JJM or De Le Riva and the guys with amazing top control, like Rickson, Sperry, Rigan, or Comprido.

Guys whose game consisted of pulling guard and going for sweeps and subs from the bottom, Royce is a good example, would probably struggle with the new breed of athletic grapplers.

Regardless, without the legends, there would be no "New Breed". They each deserve all the respect in the world...
 
JaseL29 said:
In sports like basketball, boxing, football, etc., sports that fall under these categories require youth, strength, stamina and others..you can be doing it for decades but eventually your game will fall due to age..when people hear about martial arts, theres always the master and that master is always considered the 'invincible' or the 'great'..you take a look at judo mifune, he was in his 70's and still impossible to take down in judo competition.

In BJJ, theres a lot of new guys coming in with phenomenal skills. I've never seen Rickson Gracie, Rigan Machado, Rorion Gracie, and other 45+ years old BJJ masters compete at that age. How do you think the legends would do in a BJJ match with guys like Marcelo, Roger, Jacare, Xande Ribiero, Moraes, etc?
Click to expand...

Wow, hard question to answer. Clearly the new BJJ competitors have an edge because many learned from the legends, either direct or non-direct. Most true BJJ guys have studied all of the legend's fights and moves so it's not quite fair. Now if a Rickson, Royce, Rigan or Jean Jacques were learning BJJ now, I might give them an edge but if you take them at their knowledge level of when they were in their 20's compared to the current guys, I'd have to unfortunately give it to our current crop of BJJ stars. BJJ has definitely evolved over even the last 5 years.
 
As in all sports the best of today are the best ever/of all time.

Athletes get bigger, stronger, and faster each generation. They improve upon the old design. Whether it is in training, nutrition, or, as in the case of BJJ, new refinements in technique. The best of today are the best ever. and the best of tomorrow will be better than those of today.
 
I don't see why the wizzards of today wouldn't beat all of the legends of yesterday.

Unless the sport isn't evolving at all.

Every other sport follows the same trend; why should this one be any different?
 
Ther agument for legends vs young guns is Rickson owning both Ribeiros, Paulo Filho and allegedly many other BBs.

The arguments against include Mike Fowler, Eddie Bravo, Marcelo Garcia, Bill "The Grill" Cooper and Ryan Hall who implement gameplans, study tapes and use advanced techniques that have led to them beating black belts while they were blue, purple and brown belts.
 
Mifune was a great judoka, some say the best ever. But in his 70's he'd have been thrown around like a leaf, except for the respect everyone had for him. If you were doing randori with a 70 year legend, how hard would you come in for a throw?

Like Old Timey said, if the best of today couldn't beat the best of yesterday, your sport isn't evolving ... it's a sign of a dead sport. Mifune would have been royally pissed if he thought the best young athletes couldn't have beaten him, it would have meant they'd learned nothing from what he'd done. The same is true in BJJ - it'd be a bad thing if the best athletes of today haven't been able to add onto what the best of the past did. Sort of as if everyone was still re-discovering Newton's physics instead of building on it.
 
I'm waiting for the BJJ fundamentalist sect to step in and say Rickson can beat any man woman or child because Paulo Filo said so three years ago after a private session.
 
Yes, many have competed in the ADCC, Mundials, Pan Ams, Brazilian Nationals, Rio Sate's, etc. in their late 30's to 40's and still placed highly (Sperry, Liborio, Rigan, Biteti, JJ Machado, Fabio Gurgel, and of course Royler). They really mainly lost in the ADCC to wrestlers that held them down and did little else. BJ speaks very highly of Rigan Machado, Rani and Filho speak very highly of Rickson, there were recent videos of Fabio Gurgel still schooling Marcelo while rolling, all the guys at ATT still say Liborio schools them.
 
Jordan came back out of retirement, played for the wizards, and still averaged 20 points a game as an "old" man (with the rules changed). I'm sure the same would apply to BJJ. I believe the legends would be able to compete at an elite level and do well but they would not be the most dominant competitors (only due to age).

It's my opinion that if someone was great in one time period if given the opportunity (no age or wear and tear) they would be just as great in another time period.
 
in this thread so far, people mentioned royler a couple times and consider him one of the elite legends...if thats so, he got submitted by bravo and wasn't aware of the rubber guard when it was introduced...

and others say that filho, ATT, and others still get schooled by the legends

its a tough argument, like other people have mentioned in this thread that the legends are aware of the evolution of the sport, familiar with every trick up the sleeve..

i guess when it comes down to it: age, strength, conditioning, etc are advantages for today's bjj wizards
 
I just think the players of today know more about appropriate training methods, weight cutting, appropriate weight lifting, dietary needs, supplements, peaking. Not to mention sports psychology, scoring stratagies with pins, takedowns and advantages, new ways to pass the guard, new ways to use the guard and the gi, etc.

Legends shouldn't be expected to keep up with a younger breed that has access to all of this.

Just acknowledge the great athletes of yesterday and the great athletes of today. There is a place for both.
 
some people today still think Ali > Tyson or vice versa or Ali = the greatest boxer of all time..but thats boxing tho, one connected haymaker can change the whole fight

thats a different story...as far as a guy in his 50's rolling with a 20-30 year old, u can't really pull any submissions equivalent to a haymaker unless if that person really made a big mistake to be submitted
 
I think the best guys today are better than the best guys of yesterday in most sports, boxing is questionable since the level of popularity has declined and thus there is a smaller field now.

BJJ has gotten more popular, so I'd say that the best today would submit the best of yesterday.
 
it really is hard to say, in no-gi, id give the edge to the modern wiz's but the gi levels the playing field a bit
 
All the old guys keep up with new techniques. Eddie Bravo said Ricardo Liborio was tooling a current high level bjj player with crazy ass guillotine setups.
 
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