BJJ guys doing Judo tourneys....

[Sauron]

You can shoot all you want. And holding the leg for 5 sec is plenty of time if you are going to do something. It is just that shots wont do much when a guy has a hold of your gi. It is too easy to jam to the ground.

also if you have to hold them for 5 seconds the odds are that you can twist out of it anyway.

takedown !=Ippon

 

[colinm]

Gsoares2, maybe im just an anti-purist, but i dont see the sense in limiting the techniques allowed in the interest of "judo." not to sound like a quasi-philosphical assclown, but what is judo really? a sport where you try to takedown and control/pin, or submit your opponent while wearing a gi...why stop the natural evolution of it all? i was also under the impression that wrestling takedowns werent that successful in judo because the gi allowed you to stuff a shot more easily, not because of rules.

why not adopt techniques from other grappling arts to make yours better? are we really so proud, loyal, and thickheaded about our own arts that we see a technique that works against us and say, "fuck that, ban that move cause its not __________" instead of learning it? i want to learn a low single, calf-crank, or armdrag because they are badass grappling moves and will make me a better bjj player...and i couldnt give less of a fuck what helio thinks about it.

 

[Sauron]

Gsoares2, maybe im just an anti-purist, but i dont see the sense in limiting the techniques allowed in the interest of "judo." not to sound like a quasi-philosphical assclown, but what is judo really? a sport where you try to takedown and control/pin, or submit your opponent while wearing a gi...why stop the natural evolution of it all? i was also under the impression that wrestling takedowns werent that successful in judo because the gi allowed you to stuff a shot more easily, not because of rules.

why not adopt techniques from other grappling arts to make yours better? are we really so proud, loyal, and thickheaded about our own arts that we see a technique that works against us and say, "fuck that, ban that move cause its not __________" instead of learning it? i want to learn a low single, calf-crank, or armdrag because they are badass grappling moves and will make me a better bjj player...and i couldnt give less of a fuck what helio thinks about it.

I think they do this because it often doesn't get ippon, it just kind of drags them to the floor which really isn't what judo is about. Judo is all about the ippon and usually a single leg isn't fast or impactful enough to gain ippon. Also many thought that if judo came to close to wrestling it would compromise judo's olympic status as it would be too close to wrestling.

Often the guy can just twist out of it or at best they score a koka, to get ippon you'd really have to whip them up into the air or sweep the other leg to them flat on the back with a bang.

Judo is Judo, Wrestling is Wrestling, Ironically it is BJJ that seemes to be the best place to to mix the two takedown styles together. I won't mention sambo because i want to sound clever .

 

[colinm]

good post sauron, that fucks up my arguments a little bit. just a couple questions: how would a successful single leg by scored in judo - the kind where you snap it down and just put your opponent on his ass? and if there any penalty for turtling up to avoid beig thrown, or single legged in this case?

as with the rule about switching guard midway through that match, i was under the impression that some bjj guys were pissed because their students were getting taken down and held there by wrestlers/judoka, and this rule was put in just to put the wrestlers on their backs where they werent comfortable and give the bjj guys a chance. thats all feel-good, fine and dandy, until they do mma (or dare i say teh big bad streetz!!!) and get gnped to hell because they can't sweep or takedown a wrestler. i mean, why combat another art in your rule system instead of on the mat?

btw, im really feeling bad for hijacking this thread, even tho im having a good time talking to you guys and wasting my time at work.

 

[colinm]

also, didnt rhadi use a 2 hand grip on his mutant single leg slam?

 

[Deleted member 3729]

I think stalling was one of the big issues with leg takedowns. You know, 30 seconds left, grab a leg, drop to your knees, hold the ankle till time expires.

 

[Sauron]

good post sauron, that fucks up my arguments a little bit. just a couple questions: how would a successful single leg by scored in judo - the kind where you snap it down and just put your opponent on his ass? and if there any penalty for turtling up to avoid beig thrown, or single legged in this case?

as with the rule about switching guard midway through that match, i was under the impression that some bjj guys were pissed because their students were getting taken down and held there by wrestlers/judoka, and this rule was put in just to put the wrestlers on their backs where they werent comfortable and give the bjj guys a chance. thats all feel-good, fine and dandy, until they do mma (or dare i say teh big bad streetz!!!) and get gnped to hell because they can't sweep or takedown a wrestler. i mean, why combat another art in your rule system instead of on the mat?

btw, im really feeling bad for hijacking this thread, even tho im having a good time talking to you guys and wasting my time at work.

There is no penalty for twisting out of a throw

 

[Q mystic]

good post sauron, that fucks up my arguments a little bit. just a couple questions: how would a successful single leg by scored in judo - the kind where you snap it down and just put your opponent on his ass? and if there any penalty for turtling up to avoid beig thrown, or single legged in this case?

as with the rule about switching guard midway through that match, i was under the impression that some bjj guys were pissed because their students were getting taken down and held there by wrestlers/judoka, and this rule was put in just to put the wrestlers on their backs where they werent comfortable and give the bjj guys a chance. thats all feel-good, fine and dandy, until they do mma (or dare i say teh big bad streetz!!!) and get gnped to hell because they can't sweep or takedown a wrestler. i mean, why combat another art in your rule system instead of on the mat?

btw, im really feeling bad for hijacking this thread, even tho im having a good time talking to you guys and wasting my time at work.

Most of the singles you see in judo are just set-ups for other scores like ouchi or ashi harai( hooks and sweeps) ala Fedor/Crocop.

 

[Steeltwo]

if you are just sitting there stalling they will stand you back up... if no one has control or is making attacks...

if you keep the action going they will let you stay on the ground. but many judo gusy will just clinch up untill it goes standing... Unless they think they have a ground game. Which most dont.

was asking because it seemed like you said you get only 30 seconds on the ground.


my instructor does the ref work at some of them. He count 5 if there is no action for a standup. Some do 3 others do 5.

 

[colinm]

There is no penalty for twisting out of a throw

i mean like dropping to the ground and turtling up while in the process of being single legged

 

[Steeltwo]

how would a successful single leg by scored in judo - the kind where you snap it down and just put your opponent on his ass? .

if they land on their butt, that is the lowest point amount

here is a little paste for you on the scoring

now only wazaari's add up to an ippon
two wazaari = ippon

however, 10000 Yuko's = nothing towards a ippon
and 10000000 koka's = nothing towards a ippon

the latter two will only help you win if the time runs out.

IPPON

- Thrown generally onto the back with speed, force, power and control

- Held on the back for twenty-five (25) seconds

- (SENIORS) Elbow lock submission

- (SENIORS) Neck lock submission

WAZA-ARI

- Thrown generally onto the back, but not well enough for IPPON

- Held on the back for twenty (20) seconds, but less than twenty-five (25) seconds

YUKO

- Thrown onto the side

- Held on the back for fifteen (15) seconds, but less than twenty (20) seconds

KOKA

- Thrown onto the buttocks or hip

- Held on the back for ten (10) seconds, but less than fifteen (15) seconds

 

[Steeltwo]

i mean like dropping to the ground and turtling up while in the process of being single legged

probly a koka at best, most likely nothing if they haven't landed on their ass

 

[Q mystic]

if you are just sitting there stalling they will stand you back up... if no one has control or is making attacks...

if you keep the action going they will let you stay on the ground. but many judo gusy will just clinch up untill it goes standing... Unless they think they have a ground game. Which most dont.

I think alot do have a ground game.

If I'm fighting this guy and take him down with a low score, I can work him with alot of effort and then maybe, get the armbar. Or, I'll just stand up and throw him considering I may have to fight 4 or 5 more times.

If I throw him and we land side 2 side, I'd go. If I throw him and he turtles or pulls gaurd-screw it.

 

[Commissar]

if they land on their butt, that is the lowest point amount

here is a little paste for you on the scoring

now only wazaari's add up to an ippon
two wazaari = ippon

however, 10000 Yuko's = nothing towards a ippon
and 10000000 koka's = nothing towards a ippon

the latter two will only help you win if the time runs out.

IPPON

- Thrown generally onto the back with speed, force, power and control

- Held on the back for twenty-five (25) seconds

- (SENIORS) Elbow lock submission

- (SENIORS) Neck lock submission

WAZA-ARI

- Thrown generally onto the back, but not well enough for IPPON

- Held on the back for twenty (20) seconds, but less than twenty-five (25) seconds

YUKO

- Thrown onto the side

- Held on the back for fifteen (15) seconds, but less than twenty (20) seconds

KOKA

- Thrown onto the buttocks or hip

- Held on the back for ten (10) seconds, but less than fifteen (15) seconds

Yes. This is the most useful post in the thread.

 

[Bubble Boy]

I'm disagreeing with a lot of this double leg, single leg, what's a throw, what's not stuff going on in this thread. A single leg is fine, even classical wrestling style. The point is to actually be going for a throw when you grab the leg. Folks get penalized when they reach down and grab a heandful of gi pant at the knee, and then don't shoot. They just dance around trying to get a good angle, 5 seconds go by, wham they get penalized. I've never seen a solid takedown, throw, whatever get penalized, except for screwed up flying armbar attempts where the guy endangerous his partner, the uchimata forhead dive, and a scissor throw. I've seen totally wild crazy "throws" where both people are in a tangled mess rotating in the air that totally defies any attempt to catogorize it and no penalty.

My biggest tip for a BJJer going to his first judo tourney is to realize that things move a warp speed compared to BJJ. Things are moved along very quickly by the refs. You will not get leisurely time on the ground. You better be able to work something in about 15 seconds or less.
Also, once on the ground go for pins. Forget subs and chokes. You WILL get a judokas back, but trust me, he's not real worried about it because your both going to be stood back up in about 15 seconds or less. Everything you do on the ground should be geared towards getting a pin.

Good luck.

 

[Bubble Boy]

How'd you do Rippy?

 

[flamenco diablo]

I had a dojo judo tournament and I pwned my knee trying for a double-leg !!!!!!!

 

[BinDo]

Dont expect to win use it as a learning experence, learn the rules too so you dont look like a fool.

 

[azjudoboxer**]

Good luck to you, will be a great way to practice your takedown defense, and learn some things

 

[Ci$co]

I participated in the Virginia State Tourney this weekend. 1 loss 1 win. I got ipponed and then I ipponed a guy. When the ref yelled out my full point I had no idea how I did it. They only let me work a choke technique once. It was a great time. I'm going to enter more judo tournaments now.