BJJ for real self defense?

[Throatyogurt]

its our forum , thats what makes this country great, if i did nt like what you said about bjj, i have a right to disagree

 

[Commissar]

Wow. Some of you clearly don't know what Jiu-Jitsu is. You rarely pull guard. Renzo Gracie said it best himself, that BJJ doesn't result in submissionsall the trime. It teaches you not to fight on the ground, but simply fight against your opponent's weakness. But, if you do go to the ground, guess what? Jiu-Jitsu teaches attacks, sweeps, and escapes from all positions.

Lets not turn this into a 'whats better in a streetfight, Judo or BJJ?' thread. They both have strengths and weaknesses, and it all depends on what the practitioner would like to do. So that argument is invalid, and does not fit in this specific thread in any case.

 

[triso]

It's very true that when fighting someone if they don't know something they are easily caught off guard by it.

For instance, someone who doesn't really know how to punch may get caught by a quick 1-2 combination, because they are not used to someone throwing very straight punches at them. The same is true for submissions. Contrary to what a lot of people say. A submission on an untrained fighter is pretty simple. For example. My girlfriends brother who is about 3 years younger then i am knows that i train in some sort of fighting (most people never truly listen when you tell them what you do). He likes to kid around with me because of this, and i have fun with it. We were fake sparring (cant think of any other way of describing it), and i hit him with a light leg kick from out of nowhere. He didn't expect me to use my legs. He almost fell to the ground from that, and that shocked look on his face was pretty funny. He suddenly tackles me. I get caught by it (and the shocked look on my face must have been pretty funny too). In the process of him tackling me, i simply get a guillotine choke on him. About 5 seconds after we hit the ground he was signaling for me to stop. He had no idea what the fuck happened to him. He'd never seen anything like that before.

You can apply all of this to any art you take. If you do Judo and some dude try's to clinch with you you are going to toss his ass. If you are a Wreslter, you should be able to easily take someone down who has really never had any experience with that (shit, you would take someone down who does have experience with that).

Every art has its value, and can be applied against someone, especially an untrained someone.

 

[aaron_mag]

I didn't know how to get out of guillotine when I started. Didn't know not to give someone my back. Fell for a triangle choke over and over again (still get caught in them by someone good of course). Got armbarred. Etc, etc.

When you don't know anything you're like, "Oh gee. All I have to do is stand up and he is letting me go! Why is he still holding on to my wrist? Why is he putting one foot over my face? Why does it suddenly feel like my elbow is going to snap?"

 

[Q mystic]

Also subs can leave you open to get bit. Armbar, they can try take a chunk out of your leg. Guillotine attempts can leave you with a chunk missing from your forearm or receiving a punch in the balls. The former can also be the same with RNCs. Triangles, get slammed on concrete and you're fucked. Kneebars and toeholds can lead to you getting kicked with their heel or elbowed on your spine, ribs and kidneys. A kimura is probably the safest sub to go for as you can keep elbowing them in the face and side of the head and kneeing them to the body as you crank their arm.

As for muay thai being better for self defense, I believe a poster here (Eric O possibly?) got into a scrap while back and KO'd a few guys with knees in the clinch. There is a story from years back of how Ramon Dekkers took out 5 guys systematically by KOing them and then walked off only having took a few punches. Kicking the outside of someone's knee and blowing out their kneecap will stop anyone. So MT is arguably a more suitable art to practice for the street.

If he bites your leg, rip his ear off.

 

[colinm]

lets be honest here. how long would you guess it would take a good, actively competing purple belt to slap a submission on an untrained aggressor of comparable size and just crank the shit out of it until you hear a snap......id give it about 10-20 seconds honestly.

 

[triso]

I agree.

 

[Foolkiller]

As to what is good for "Self Defense" ... nothing. There is no art that is going to teach you to kick the shit out of multiple attackers and come out unscathed. As for weapons, if you use a gun you are going to jail. If you stab someone you are going to jail. Hell in a lot of cases if you are in a fight and the cops arrive you are going to jail. Truthfully if you use any of these weapons are you really that "tough"? No, you just used something that everyone is afraid of and that can obviously do serious amounts of damage. Do you really WANT to stab or shoot someone?
.

By the same token, if you mount, GnP and ruin a guy's face, you can go to jail or at least have to pay their medical bills.

 

[2om30]

I never had to use BJJ in a street fight, bar fight. Never had too. I just use common sense to diffuse the situation while shrimping out of the room/ parking lot.

 

[Zankou]

I never had to use BJJ in a street fight, bar fight. Never had too. I just use common sense to diffuse the situation while shrimping out of the room/ parking lot.

Lol. Best self defense training = the treadmill, turned up to 10 m.p.h.

 

[Deleted member 3729]

Truth be told i'd rather have 5 MT guys covering my back in a street fight than 5 bjj guys.

But then again they don't teach wrestling in schools here.

 

[jjmuaythaiguy]

Lol. Best self defense training = the treadmill, turned up to 10 m.p.h.

Ah, young grasshopper, you speak of an offshoot of the new martial arts craze going around, called Treadmill-Do. Once you become a black belt in Treadmill-Do, then you may choose one of the following arts:

Asics-Gel-Do

Air-Max-Do

Not to be confused with New-Balance-Do, which is a offshoot of the other two.

 

[TheHighlander]

I'm not going to argue that BJJ is best for self-defence, but rather against those that say it's not good. One great thing about BJJ for self-defence is that it gives you a lot of options so that you can leverage other skills (if you have them). If you're up against a better striker, you pretty much need to get the fight to the ground (preferably knocking him out with a throw). You could say that it's one of the best backup plans out there.

With the proper mindset and minimal training a sport style (particularly boxing, judo, wrestling, bjj, mma) has a lot of advantages over a pure self-defence style. That is not to say that I believe self-defence styles are useless. If you end up on the ground with somebody pounding on you, which style do you think is going to help you the most? Wrestlers and judoka can have a bad habit of exposing their back, which is very bad in self-defence. BJJ guys can get hung up in stupidly complicated sweeps.

Against a weapon, all unarmed styles are screwed. Some are just screwed a little more than others, but mindset and training can mitigate this to the extent possible. To the guys that think somebody doing an armbar is going to get his head stomped, what planet are you on? The head will not be still long enough when I drop back to snap the arm and then move on. The head will be still for a couple of seconds during a choke, but your victim's head is also in the way.

I have done 2 on 1 standup sparring, mma sparring and grappling. None of them are easy, but none are nearly as hopeless as people believe. Of the three I happen to prefer the grappling, but that's just me.

 

[migo**]

"As for where I get the idea a BJJ guy would pull guard in a fight, Robin Gracie pulled guard when Damien Riccio challenged him to a fight."

That's a challenge match, not a street fight.

 

[Foolkiller]

"As for where I get the idea a BJJ guy would pull guard in a fight, Robin Gracie pulled guard when Damien Riccio challenged him to a fight."

That's a challenge match, not a street fight.

It was a vale tudo challenge and he pulled guard. It's just as well he wasn't on the street or it would have been even worse. But my point remains, he pulled guard in the fight. He's a BJJ guy. It was not a grappling match and as such, was not the smartest thing to do.

To the guys that think somebody doing an armbar is going to get his head stomped, what planet are you on? The head will not be still long enough when I drop back to snap the arm and then move on. The head will be still for a couple of seconds during a choke, but your victim's head is also in the way.

I'm on the planet where people see their friend is in trouble and go "get off him you f'n c*nt" and will stomp the shit out of you and kick you in the ribs while you are down leaning back for the armbar. Very rarely are street fights one on one affairs, generally people only act if they have back up unless they are stupid or messed up on meth/crack.

 

[SideofKO]

Most people won't know what the hell an armbar is and if they do they probably won't see you going for it. They'll likely see you on the bottom and assume that everything is okay for their friend who is on top. By the time he's screaming and you're up running away or whatever, his friends will likely have figured out that you hurt their friend. They might attack you then, or might not. They might attack you when you are on the bottom anyways. Most people are pussies.
As for the challenge match mentioned above. I hope sincerely that you aren't generalizing all BJJ'ers by what he did. IF he thought that he could fight better from his guard then fine but don't throw everyone int that group becasue of what one person did. Some people work from their guards better and are comfortable taking punches as long as they get their bone snapping armbar or sleep inducing guillotine.
I carry a gun for self defense when I think there is no other choice. I am not going to pull it out when one person approaches me unless I see a threat. I avoid fights when at all possible. I have had quite a few of them still but I either keep my friends by or I just gun it alone and hope I'll be okay. I have had my ass kick

 

[SideofKO]

By the way, Superbeast have you ever studied BJJ, or Judo?

 

[VegasFighter**]

When someone has nothing to say I don't see why they should attempt to say anything. Unless they can contribute something beyond "STFU" they should probably take their own advice and save some server bandwidth.

People saying a BJJ fighter should clinch and take someone down and finish them, fellow mod Mirada here attempted to do so when jumped by some guys while he was out with his friends and was stabbed as a result in the confusion by someone else. Did his jiujitsu training help? To an extent, it probably did. But he still unfortunately had to go to the hospital. The problem is if you focus on fighting one person, as BJJ generally does, chances are they will have friends focusing on you. Shit, all a person needs is a beer bottle to smash over your noggin and stab you with and all your jiujitsu goes out of the window.

BJJ is primarily about taking someone to the ground and finishing them. Very few schools teach the standing locks brought over from traditional jiujitsu. The majority of BJJ takedowns are lifted from judo anyway seeing as BJJ came from judo and is essentially heavily newaza based judo with some wrestling and sambo stuff Rolls brought over to the style. Very few top BJJ only guys have good striking and those that do have them due to crosstraining boxing or muay thai. I can't think of any jiujitsu guys that have finished other opponents in MMA or BJJ with standing submissions. Even Sperry and Noguiera said last week the way out of a gun confrontation is to put your hands up. These are top BJJ guys and even they realise all your martial arts training goes out the window when someone pulls a weapon. Why would you even want to try take down with someone with a weapon?

Vagabond Musashi, when was the last time you went to a BJJ class where they taught headbutts and stomps? Seriously, I'd like to know. I think you are confusing BJJ with Vale Tudo/Luta Livre. By the way Throatyogurt, he trains at Las Vegas Combat Club I believe. Marc Laimon, Heath Herring, Frank Mir, they train there also. Well, the latter two do when they are healthy at least.

As for where I get the idea a BJJ guy would pull guard in a fight, Robin Gracie pulled guard when Damien Riccio challenged him to a fight.

I train martial arts because I enjoy them and in certain situations they are useful, however if I am confronted on the street by someone or more than one person, the first thing I am going to do is look for a weapon or run rather than engage them in any way. Only if I am cornerned, can't see or find anything to use will I resort to using martial arts.

Case in point: I was walking home from the off license/liquor store with some beers when two teenagers approached me asking what was in the bag and then asking to give them one of my beers. I ignored them and walked on but they kept following me and shouting and insulting me. When one grabbed my shoulder I swung round and hit him with one of the bag full of cans. His head slams against the iron railings of the park gate and goes down, his mate ran at me, I dropped the bags, threw the guy, kicked him in the face, picked up my bags and ran while they were still trying to get up. I ended up with only 5 cans of 8 but didn't try fight either, I did what I could and got the fuck out of there. There's a time and a place for using BJJ, but the street isn't really the place unless you have no choice.

Just had to comment. I train at LVCC, and Mark Laimon has his own school called "cobra Kai".

 

[Mirada]

Your avatar is lying.

Is it?



Superbeast- I realize you haven't been a mod for long, so here's a hot tip. When one of these threads comes along, and nobody fixes it with porn, reach for that lock button buddy,

 

[Foolkiller]

By the way, Superbeast have you ever studied BJJ, or Judo?

Both actually. Studied judo as a kid, have been practicing the judo syllabus from clips off of juodinfo.org and am hopefully going to start training with a judo black belt and master of combat sombo. I've been training BJJ for just under three years and just came back from the BTT Barcelona camp. I appreciate each one has invaluable techniques however given my experience of street fights and bar brawls I generally find the best thing to do is grab something and start swinging it while keeping your back to the wall or get the fuck out of there. What I do on the mat or in sparring with my buddies is quite different to what I do when confronted by a bunch of aggressive drunks with chavs who want to rob me.

Some people work from their guards better and are comfortable taking punches as long as they get their bone snapping armbar or sleep inducing guillotine

Taking punches from your guard on the street will likely have your head bouncing off the pavement. I accept not all BJJ guys will pull guard however not so long ago a guy recounted of how he was drunk, kept looking for the takedown and stumbling and then got his ass beat. He went to look for a takedown, didn't get it and in short order got his ass kicked. As I said before, I'd rather avoid that whole going to the ground scenario as in my experience people will rarely start trouble unless they have someone to look out for them and the numbers are in their favour and it's hard to keep an eye on everyone else when you're pounding one guy.

Vegas Fighter, I must have got you and Vagabond Musashi confused. But given the fact their are several thousand members here, you can see why I'd get confused.

Mirada, duly noted.