BJJ and law Enforcement

[judokapinoy]

i talked to a few police officers who used judo and or trained judo in certain techniques specifically for their job and they said it worked great with resisting people becuase, even a poorly executed throw or sweep will stun someone and not know what the hell you did, and you can land a nice pin or submission to land those cuffs

 

[PhxJudoJujitsu]

Both of my instructors work with local LEO's, especially SWAT officers, and I help with the seminars. We focus on high percentage throws, that can be done gi, or no gi, and very effective arm bar/wristlocks you can do either on the ground or standing, to keep the suspect pinned on the ground and subued. If anyone is interested i'll try and take pics at the next seminar.

 

[nyrednose]

Quick question to all the Cops on here. As I stated before I have trained and am training in a few different martial arts. Recently I got a Sgt. who has a problem in the way I describe technique I use in my reports. IE., when I execute a leg sweep, Single leg takedown, or other techniques not instructed in our dept academy. He says it opens me up to liability and disciplnary action. I explained to him I have formal training and people who will back me up in court. But he continues to lecture me about it. Just curios about the wording you guys use in your reports and if you have run into this situation

 

[Brandinho]

Quick question to all the Cops on here. As I stated before I have trained and am training in a few different martial arts. Recently I got a Sgt. who has a problem in the way I describe technique I use in my reports. IE., when I execute a leg sweep, Single leg takedown, or other techniques not instructed in our dept academy. He says it opens me up to liability and disciplnary action. I explained to him I have formal training and people who will back me up in court. But he continues to lecture me about it. Just curios about the wording you guys use in your reports and if you have run into this situation

Is it in the policies and procedures manual or the use of force continuum? I hate agreeing with supervisors but he is 100% correct. You are opening yourself and the department up for lawsuits. You can be operating within the scope of the penal code but outside of departmental policy. You need to show it is approved academy teachings. Make a name for yourself, go to the academy and knock some sense into them. All of the techniques you described are allowed where I work.

 

[sproggdawg]

If at all possible you guys who are all hyped up about the modern combatives book on amazon should realize that those are only basics and you will get a lot more information by buying or checking out a book from the library on staight Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. There are a lot
of people out there who sell books on martial arts and don't exactly model the techniques like they were shown traditionally. What I mean is that a lot of people make their own techniques just to look flashy but, that don't work....... and make a bad relationship when relating to the martial art they made a move for show.

Im not quite sure how to respond to this. Have you read Greg Thompsons book? Have you even looked through it? There are some pretty advanced techniques in that book. I know this because Ive been grappling for 3 plus years. Now im obviously not a BJJ black belt, but ive made it around the block a few times. I also own nearly every relevant BJJ book you could find at your local book store. Greg Thomspon is a Royce Gracie black belt and coauthored this book with Kid Peligro. Im fairly sure you dont have much experience with BJJ marerial or you would know that anything Peligro puts out is quality.

As for that youtube judo link, i watched that and in my opinion those were Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu techniques. Judo and Jiu-Jitsu are different; Judo incorporates throws and BJJ doesn't but, is more technical with ground work. That is just my opinion not intended to make anyone upset or say that they are wrong. Law Enforcement poeple that do BJJ should know that when you train BJJ everything is different than in the book because you learn as you gain experience; books are good if you can't train in fact I even have some books on just BJJ and nothing fancy like that book on amazon.

Im sure your intention is to help here, but youre speaking with both Law Enforcement personel (who already train) and BJJ practitioners who know what they are talking about. And again....."nothing Fancy like in that book from Amazon"? You need to check your sources.

I would not buy that book because i've watched army combatives training with BJJ incorporated into its system and it didn't even come close to mastering the basics of BJJ!! This is to help anyone who is considering the book.

Having watched Army Combatives training in no way makes you qualified to speak for whats in this book. Nor does it make you able to gauge the quality of the sytesm itself. You also need to understand that there is a difference between the Combatives instruction in regards to regular army units and special forces. Greg Teaches the SF exclusively and as such delves far deeper into the techniques and details of BJJ. This however is a moot point. I did not instruct anyone to go out and join the army. What I DID do was urge them to pick up this book. Why? Because it takes BJJ and relates it to a real world scenario where people are armed and the combatants are not wearing a gi. Some people would say that Gi techniques are useless if the opponent does not have a jacket on. This is false, and you would see why if you purchased this book. It is absolutely stuffed with incredibly helpful information and much of it is invaluable to someone in the Law Enforcement field. Weapon retention and transition are discussed in full and modifications are made to techniques to always allow an officer or soldier to be mindful and have full access to their sidearm. Unless your training with Greg Thompson or another combatives instructor, your not going to get any of this somewhere else. And certainly not from a book you got at the library. Again....Im sure your intent was to help here. But you made some very poor assumptions and I for one was somewhat insulted. The bottom line is this. You need to let the real Law Enforcement Personnel be the judge here. This isnt a video game forum, there arent alot of kids floating around. The only assumption you should make is that the people you converse with here are well schooled and knowledgable in BJJ and its related material.

 

[Jiu-Jitsu Cop]

Quick question to all the Cops on here. As I stated before I have trained and am training in a few different martial arts. Recently I got a Sgt. who has a problem in the way I describe technique I use in my reports. IE., when I execute a leg sweep, Single leg takedown, or other techniques not instructed in our dept academy. He says it opens me up to liability and disciplnary action. I explained to him I have formal training and people who will back me up in court. But he continues to lecture me about it. Just curios about the wording you guys use in your reports and if you have run into this situation

You must use the correct wording per your departments policy. You say you have people who wiill back you in court but how often do they testify in court. Have the courts recoginized them as experts and will they say what is correct. Remember you are in court with a lawyer who is an expert at taking people's testimony apart. Your use of force instructor will be adjusted to having this happen and will be better at testifying then a BJJ instructor. Use the correct wording that your supervisor wants.

 

[10thdegreewhite]

i would think that gi techniques can transfer over into law enforcement situations because regardless of what you see on cops, most suspects are probably not naked or without a shirt

you can grab jacket collars, shirts, pant legs and everything

i dont think you would necessarily be trying gi chokes with a dude's shirt but the handles are there

 

[sproggdawg]

i would think that gi techniques can transfer over into law enforcement situations because regardless of what you see on cops, most suspects are probably not naked or without a shirt

you can grab jacket collars, shirts, pant legs and everything

i dont think you would necessarily be trying gi chokes with a dude's shirt but the handles are there

You can definitely choke a guy with his tshirt. Ive done it numerous times and it works equally as well as a jacket if you do it correctly.

 

[judokapinoy]

i would think that gi techniques can transfer over into law enforcement situations because regardless of what you see on cops, most suspects are probably not naked or without a shirt

you can grab jacket collars, shirts, pant legs and everything

i dont think you would necessarily be trying gi chokes with a dude's shirt but the handles are there

i've been in a situation where a man was wearing one of those polo type shirts and they have thick collars and i used a collar choke that worked good.

 

[Sub Dude]

Quick question to all the Cops on here. As I stated before I have trained and am training in a few different martial arts. Recently I got a Sgt. who has a problem in the way I describe technique I use in my reports. IE., when I execute a leg sweep, Single leg takedown, or other techniques not instructed in our dept academy. He says it opens me up to liability and disciplnary action. I explained to him I have formal training and people who will back me up in court. But he continues to lecture me about it. Just curios about the wording you guys use in your reports and if you have run into this situation

Yeah, the unfortunate truth is that most of the people writing and approving use of force policy have no idea what they are talking about, except for maybe the most rudimentary state or department approved training, which is usually so watered down as to be completely useless. In our department, one of our other defensive tactics instructors, who is a Judo BB & BJJ purple, took the issue straight to the training and administrative staff, and developed a series of techniques to counter some of the most common problems officers run into. Now, our whole department has been trained in this, so it is not uncommon to see terms such as "keylock" in a use of force statement, and everyone understands it now. Usually, it's just a lack of understanding that causes these problems.

What's frustrating for me is the limitations/restrictions put on certain techniques, because administrative brass don't understand them and are afraid of liability. I don't know how other departments are, but with ours, any type of choke is considered deadly force, so basically, you can't use them except in the most extreme circumstances.

 

[Horus]

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