BJ Penn's takedown defense

[Tony Manifold]

You made my day.

Another things to add Mickey Triangle??

BJ is hard to take down, but GSP did it easily.

But there is a fact, BJ doesnt care to be taked down, he's a bjj wizard, so maybe we have to put that in the equation.

Basically, he has a great single leg defense because he is so flexible and has great balance. People tend to either suck in the single until the guy goes to has back or run the pipe and twist them to the ground. If they don't do that, they try and lift it up while sweeping a leg. None of those would work against BJ. GSP tend to explode through his singles and doubles, basically knocking people over and off their feet. I would be interested to see BJ against someone like Kos or Gray Maynard (maynard is way, way to green right now though) and see how he deals with their explosive takedowns.

I would however, tend to argee that BJ is more than willing to give up a takedown unless he stuffs it out right. I don't see him fighting to pull a guy up to a clinch, he would probably prefer to pull guard. That is part of what makes him such a dangerous fighter. He has pretty good takedown defense but is as comfortable off his back as anyone in MMA. You fight to get the takedown, eventually get it and you end up in possibly the hardest guard to pass in MMA. Yeah! No what?

I am not trying to say that his TD defense sucks just trying to add some rationality, which is tough in any discussion about BJ.:icon_chee

 

[ShanghaiBJJ]

It was a really good fight and I am glad BJ won.

Very enjoyable event overall.

 

[Tony Manifold]

I should also add that although GSP had an 80% takedown rate, it wasn't "at will". GSP sets up his shots better than most pure wrestlers and attempting 5 takedowns over 15 minutes if pretty conservative.

 

[franz_grinder]

When Hughes and GSP took BJ down they used bodylocks and doubles. As stated previously in this thread BJ's single leg defense all but nullifies that technique. The way he splits also doesn't allow the use of the single as a lead to transition to the double. You either have to shoot a real deep double, drop for a double from upper body or bodylock Penn.

 

[georgejjr]

Good point. As far as I am concerned if you have competed at an international level, you are world class. That is the purest definition. As far as wrestling goes, a college all american has pretty damn good wrestling and NCAA champ is flat out awesome. Then you have to look at MMA wrestling. Of the big three greco guys in MMA (lindland, Hendo and randy) Randy has the best MMA wrestling yet didn't even compete at the Olympics unlike the other two. I also have to agree on the differences. The big three in North America are Freestyle, Folk and Greco and they are all very different. Not to mention all the other national flavors of wrestling.

When I wrestled (and in competitive judo), world class generally meant someone who could finish top 12 in the world. However, there's no exact definition of the term, so your definition is as good as any other. If world class means competing at international level though, I was a world class judoka ... I fought in a couple open International 'C' tournaments. I also wrestled in a few international (American-Canadian with a few outsiders) wrestling competitions. I (unfortunately :icon_cry2) was no where close to what would generally be called a world class competitor in either judo or wrestling. Let's split the difference, and say world class means good enough to be on a national team (which I was never close to being good enough to do) - you can fight in international tournaments without being on a team, as there are a lot of open tournaments, and a lot of people who can win fights at a national level (but don't have a shot at getting national level medals) try open international competitions just to test themselves. Most of us lose quickly :redface:

I agree All American is damn good, and NCAA champ is awesome, and anyone who becomes NCAA champ has a very real shot at the US national team (or probably any national team outside of Russia) if they wanted it. So its admittedly reasonable to say an NCAA champ is world class.

I'm not so comfortable with the world class wrestling for MMA concept, for the same reason I don't feel comfortable when people say Anderson Silva has world class boxing based on what he does in MMA ... in MMA you have to be good at everything, so you can't specialize. If what's meant by world class 'X' is world class for MMA 'X', then you can say Anderson Silva has world class boxing, GSP has world class wrestling, Big Nog has world class BJJ, Karo has world class judo ... none of which would probably be accepted by sport purists (boxing, wrestling, BJJ and judo) because none of those people would win against top people in the pure sports without a lot of specialized training.

 

[Throatpoker]

GSP taked him down almost at will.

You're kidding, right?

 

[_Glorfindel_]

You're kidding, right?

He tried 5 times, got it 4 times. Make your own conclusions. Maybe 'at will' is a little bit too munch.

Let's say GSP didnt have that munch difficulties to put BJ down, is it better?

 

[SilenceKit]

BJ's defense to the single leg is the pigeon pose in yoga.

http://elsieyogakula.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/pigeon-prep.jpg

Which basically means giving up your back to him even when you have a leg.