BJ Penn vs Bang Ludwig

[Fight To Win]

BJ's telling the truth. I remembered Lyoto clearly winning, but rewatching the vid, BJ DID outstrike him and back him up. And Lyoto DID just hold him against the ropes and on the ground. It was crazy!

Oh I agree, we can only imagine a rematch but I wouldn't mind seeing it in real life even. Then again I'm odd.

 

[HappyHaHa**]

Always been my opinion that chubby Penn is the best Penn

Same. I remember an old interview with Big Nog about how hard it was to grapple with Fedor, because Fedor is chubby, and doesn't have bulky muscles to grab onto and hold. And you're not gonna gas as badly if you haven't had to cut a shit ton of weight. But the flip-side of that for BJ is that at WW, even though he didn't have to cut weight, he'd still gas because he was fighting bigger, stronger guys, and that will naturally make you fatigued.

 

[8KresniK8]

Even though BJ has dissapointed more than once i could never root against him, fan for life.

 

[Maripucci]

it was great to watch 10 years ago when fighters had little skills. mma has evolved to the pont where a bigger fighter has a huge advantage over the smaller fighter. a less skilled larger opponent can still be beaten by a smaller more skilled fighter but its 2013 and people know how to defend bjj attacks. BJ was ahead if the time and was able to exploit the lack of knowledge./training. too bad he never evolved as a fighter. with his experience and natural ability he could have gone much further. resting on your lorals catches up to you fast. quite often the will to win is stronger than the skill to win.

 

[jn677**]

it was great to watch 10 years ago when fighters had little skills. mma has evolved to the pont where a bigger fighter has a huge advantage over the smaller fighter. a less skilled larger opponent can still be beaten by a smaller more skilled fighter but its 2013 and people know how to defend bjj attacks. BJ was ahead if the time and was able to exploit the lack of knowledge./training. too bad he never evolved as a fighter. with his experience and natural ability he could have gone much further. resting on your lorals catches up to you fast. quite often the will to win is stronger than the skill to win.

So you dont think people can dimish as they get older?

Men peak physically in their mid 20s. Obviously as they get older they tend to learn more so this can offset the loss of speed/athleticism.

But if penn is learning at the same rate of the other fighters in the division except they are younger and he is older(he might have trained longer then them but he spent much of that training ineffectively) then obviously he's gonna lose a step compared to them.

I think if you give penn know the drive, speed and athleticism of himself when he was younger he wouldnt have lost.

Watching his recent fights(i havent seen the rory fight). His skill set hasnt lost him a fight, it's his gas tank or him not pushing the pace or being aggressive enough. That's all related to age.

 

[HappyHaHa**]

You are mistaken.

There was an interview with BJ before the Penn-GSP II fight where Penn himself - not Dana - explicitly stated he wanted to fight Anderson if he beat GSP.

Penn and Anderson really admire each other, but Penn is...well, kind of insane. Which is why many of his fans love him.

There's no chance in hell of me locating that interview today, but I remember it well because I was like "WTF BJ??" when I saw it. Penn definitely wanted to fight Anderson, that's no myth.

And you can find video interviews of him calling out Wand in Pride back when Wand was the King, that's well documented. It's just Penn being Penn. He actually believed he could win those fights.

Yup. I actually didn't remember BJ saying it in a vid, but I have no doubt he did. I do clearly remember Dana talking about it, but yeah that was like 5 years ago, gonna be hard to find.

And I agree 100% about everything you said. BJ, no bullshit, fully believed he could beat anybody, and wanted to try it. But destroying a prime Matt Hughes at a higher weight than you will do wonders for your confidence. Hell you gotta be insane just to even try that. But you're right, that's why we love BJ.

It's a moot point/argument now. Penn got his ass whipped by GSP and he would have gotten slaughtered by AS.

Oh GSP beat the brakes off him for sure. And Andy probably would have slaughtered him. But you never know. Andy fights way differently than GSP, and BJ wouldn't have had to worry about takedowns at all, and could focus on striking only...or most likely trying to take Andy down. And Andy's weakest area is on the ground, and BJ's top game is great. Plus we saw BJ outstrike Lyoto, who Andy says routinely beats him in sparring. So who knows? But yeah, realistically Andy would've mauled him horrifically.

Besides IIRC didn't Penn say that if he beat GSP at 94 he would have retired "On top'?

Idk, he might've said that. But has any fighter retired on top? IF BJ had beaten GSP, I have no doubt he would've wanted the Anderson fight, and I'm pretty sure he's said as much.

They should've called him JB Penn (jumbo balls). If he'd been born a HW, he might've beaten Fedor

 

[AP_RESURRECTION]

people should watch that portion of bj's career and read up on who he fought, if they are new to the sport

 

[killakoy]

Ah, u may be right, it's been awhile.


BJ stomping Gomi was still impressive though

I was actually at that ROTR. After got to hang out with Gilbert Melendez at Pipeline.

Ah... back when MMA wasn't mainstream...

 

[HappyHaHa**]

people should watch that portion of bj's career and read up on who he fought, if they are new to the sport

Agreed. BJ's had an insane career, and the way things are today, there will never be another fighter with that diverse of a career.

I was actually at that ROTR. After got to hang out with Gilbert Melendez at Pipeline.

Ah... back when MMA wasn't mainstream...

Pretty awesome

The only thing I knew back then was the UFC. And I didn't even follow that through the "dark era." But was a fan during the early UFC's. In fact, the first fight I remember seeing was Pat Smith elbowing the living shit out of that ninja from Texas. And to see that I had to go rent the vhs tapes from a video store. The UFC tapes were in the same section as Faces of Death (lmao).

 

[killakoy]

The only thing I knew back then was the UFC. And I didn't even follow that through the "dark era." But was a fan during the early UFC's. In fact, the first fight I remember seeing was Pat Smith elbowing the living shit out of that ninja from Texas. And to see that I had to go rent the vhs tapes from a video store. The UFC tapes were in the same section as Faces of Death (lmao).

Yep... I'm one of the few that's been around since UFC1. Got that on PPV since we wanted to see how Judo would stack up. After, I just remember rooting for Royce since jiu-jitsu was sorta related. Ha, ha!

And yeah... after that, I'd just rent all the UFC's from the video store. They got placed next to Faces of Death since they actually marketed it as a bloody kumite type event that's banned in most states.

 

[Fyreborn]

it was great to watch 10 years ago when fighters had little skills. mma has evolved to the pont where a bigger fighter has a huge advantage over the smaller fighter. a less skilled larger opponent can still be beaten by a smaller more skilled fighter but its 2013 and people know how to defend bjj attacks. BJ was ahead if the time and was able to exploit the lack of knowledge./training. too bad he never evolved as a fighter. with his experience and natural ability he could have gone much further. resting on your lorals catches up to you fast. quite often the will to win is stronger than the skill to win.

Get out of here with this "evolved" BS. Nobody who knows anything about the sport will buy that for a second.

Penn at his best was one of the most diverse, technically skilled fighters ever. Far more "evolved" than any 155er today with the exception of maybe Pettis.

Penn just got old, plus he was always inconsistent anyway. But while "motivated Penn" is a myth, "Marinovich Penn" was a real thing and a total beast. He should have stayed with the Marinoviches, but as we all know, Penn is lazy (relative to most elite fighters anyway - compared to your average Joe I'm sure Penn works hard).

Early career Penn was also a beast, just a freak level athlete with athleticism perfectly suited for MMA. The Penn that crushed prime Hughes like it was nothing would beat any LW today IMO. And I don't think you'll find many objective observers who would disagree with that statement.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Agreed. Prime BJ destroys today's lw's imo. And most of the ww's. And some of the mw's and lhw's. That's why he's got such a rabid fanbase. Because prime BJ had so much damn confidence that he honestly thought he could beat anybody, at any weight, and he wanted to challenge himself against the very best. He even called out Pride era Wand, when most lhw's didn't want any piece of Wand.

Oh and then there was also this:

[YT]HdvOfCz6_tk[/YT]


BJ was a natural born fighter. Not an athlete. That's what separates the older generation from today's fighters.

Delusionnal retarded BJ nuthugger at its finest.

 

[BrainLeakage]

BJ was a natural born fighter. Not an athlete. That's what separates the older generation from today's fighters.

The older and the new generation are all fighters, but the new generation is also an athlete.

Fighter&athlete > fighter

 

[ThunderStruck]

I didn't see Penn holding the sub for 1.7 seconds longer than he had to. Hopefully Palhares can also see this fight and realize what a professional looks like.

That professional did hold the choke longer than he should have against Stevenson.

 

[HappyHaHa**]

Yep... I'm one of the few that's been around since UFC1. Got that on PPV since we wanted to see how Judo would stack up. After, I just remember rooting for Royce since jiu-jitsu was sorta related. Ha, ha!

And yeah... after that, I'd just rent all the UFC's from the video store. They got placed next to Faces of Death since they actually marketed it as a bloody kumite type event that's banned in most states.

Ah the good ole days

Judo's proven to be a great base, so it's cool you were already doing it way back then. I remember seeing Royce choking people and wondering wtf he was doing to win those fights. I was a TKD guy back then and it didn't fare well at all lol. But Pettis and a few others are starting to show that it can be effective, which is cool to see.

Delusionnal retarded BJ nuthugger at its finest.

Let me guess, you didn't watch BJ's career back then, right? You seem like the type of troll that goes to fightfinder and thinks he knows a fighter's career. Or maybe you think fighters less than 10 years ago were vastly different and unprepared for what fighters today bring. Well, fighters today bring punches, kicks, wrestling and jiu-jitsu. Same shit people did back then. Prime BJ would still kick ass in today's climate. Believe it, don't believe it, I don't care either way.

 

[jmadtx]

If BJ comes out and does this to Frankie...it would take away the sting of Anderson getting KTFO. Theres a reason Anderson calls BJ a great. He is one of the last great "fighters"

i might actually cry tears of joy for the first time in my life.

 

[HappyHaHa**]

The older and the new generation are all fighters, but the new generation is also an athlete.

Fighter&athlete > fighter

I see what you're getting at, but I disagree (to an extent).

Some of today's fighter/athletes would NOT be mma fighters if they weren't getting paid decent money or had the chance to be on tv and get famous. But a lot of the guys from the last generation would've (and some have) fought for nothing, with no cameras, in front of tiny crowds...simply because they love to fight. It's what they do to challenge themselves. BJ was like that. He didn't need the money. And when he started there wasn't much chance of getting famous or well known. He just loved to fight and it's what he was great at. And the idea of being a professional cage fighter back then must've sounded horrible to his family and friends.

Today, guys know there is a top level they can reach, where they might get rich and famous. So we're now seeing these "athletes" that can win fights because of superior physicality, but yet flinch at the very thought of getting punched hard in the mouth. The previous generation just didn't give a shit. That's why the top guys from that generation seemed like freakin superheroes to us. You had guys like a fighter/croation anti-terrorism commando, a secretive Russian who does some unknown training in the mountains or some shit, etc. Today, you got guys who are explosive, fast and strong, so they win. But they don't have the fan base that the last generation of "real fighters" had.
If ya can't see the difference in mentalities between the two generations, I don't know what else to tell ya.

That professional did hold the choke longer than he should have against Stevenson.

You mean Serra

 

[RemoWilliams1a**]

Dana said that during an interview at some point, maybe around the GSP/BJ 2 fight? And it wasn't like a personal beef type of call out or anything. BJ wasn't mad at Anderson and wanted to kick his ass. Dana was just saying that BJ wanted to fight Andy because that's the type of guy BJ is. And Dana kept having to tell him no.

I'll see if I can find it. But like I said it was during a Dana interview, so finding it might be tough. Lemme see what I can do.

Use google advanced search and sherdog.net in the sight or domain box and then put in whatever search parameters you want in the 'all these words' box.

I guarantee you that if BJ or Anderson ever said a hundred discussions and threads popped up on it.

Here's the closest I could find so far. I remember Dana talking about it in a vid, but haven't found it yet (this was several years ago after all).

http://www.mmamania.com/2008/10/17/dana-white-bj-penn-vs-anderson-silva-aint-gonna-happen/

From the article:

-"If GSP beats BJ then you

 

[RemoWilliams1a**]

Delusionnal retarded BJ nuthugger at its finest.

lol.

I remember during BJ's LW run as champ and just before his GSp and then Edgar losses a discussion or fight I was having with many top BJ fans including PB where they were arguing BJ would beat most top WW, MW and even LHW's.

I remember PB specifically saying 'how is Hendo going to beat BJ, by catching him with the HBomb', as if BJ was going to just jab and box all the top LHW's to death.

Ya ok for a time BJ did look unbeatable at LW but man do BJ fans go nutty based on what he did to a LW division that was quite weak at the time.

 

[Olir]

Because it was at HW and BJ's natural weight is around lw/ww. And because Machida is a former LHW champ and STILL a top contender. And Anderson says Lyoto regularly beats him in training. And Lyoto as the first guy to do anything against Jon Jones. I could go on and on.

Also, I'd seen that fight before, but watching this particular video of it, (don't know if it's the lack of commentary or what) BJ did WAY better than I remembered him doing. It was pretty close, and BJ took it to Lyoto and popped him several good times. Plus he didn't gas nearly as bad as you'd have thought.

Lyoto is a MW, BJ is a WW, there really wasn't that much of a disadvantage given up by BJ. BJ was also much more experienced.