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BJ Penn & Tito Ortiz: Do their legacies still hold up?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by tony pepperoni, Dec 9, 2019.

  1. tony pepperoni

    tony pepperoni Yellow Belt

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    As in, do all their accomplishments get pushed aside, downplayed because of their continuation well past their prime or is it inconsequential?
     
  2. irish_thug

    irish_thug Meme Mod Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Time makes cans out of all champs.
     
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  3. cneely717

    cneely717 Green Belt

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    Tito yes BJ Penn no IMO

    BJ Penns legacy was "greatest LW of all time" "most skilled fighter" all this stuff

    I think Tito doesnt have to live up to that and isnt expected to live up to that. Hes' atleast had a few nice moments in the second half of his career...Bader fight...Chael sonnen fight.
     
  4. Substance Abuse

    Substance Abuse Plutonium Belt Platinum Member

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    They were both never that great and both have tarnished, tainted legacies.

    Sure. Dawg.
     
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  5. Kowboy

    Kowboy Blessed by the return of the king!!!! Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Tito is still winning in 2019... has added Chuck name to his fight finder win (yes, fight should have never happened). Likely to get another name opponent in 2020....

    BJ is getting knocked out at a bar by a bum... and hasn't won since the year of the rat. You be the judge.
     
  6. Willy Knuckles

    Willy Knuckles Blue Belt

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    I don't see the similarities in the two. BJ has lost 7 in a row, looked shit in all of them, and is getting KO'd by old high school buddies at random bars. Tito, if anything, is helping his legacy a little bit lol
     
  7. Ogata

    Ogata Silver Belt

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    Tito Ortiz:Yes

    BJ Penn: No

    Tito made his UFC debut in 1997 while Penn in 2001. Different era and Tito stayed in the UFC as much as possible and didn't go to K1 here and there. That and Tito is still winning fights and looking good. Penn has been on a horrific losing record that extends to outside.
     
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  8. TR1

    TR1 Brown Belt

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    No, their losses late in life/career have absolutely zero bearing on their legacy.

    Only jackasses enjoy going "HAHAHAHA THEY ALWAYS SUCKED" after fighters get washed up.
     
  9. thewhiterooster

    thewhiterooster dana hates sunscreen

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    of course their legacies still hold up. what they both did for the sport is undeniable. and for us old farts who have been watching since UFC 1, it may be easier to respect their legacy because we saw it happen live. it's very unfortunate that they stuck around the party too long though. needless to say, bj's end of his career is much worse than Tito's. chuck and bj may have been better subjects.
     
  10. Doctor Lenovo

    Doctor Lenovo Purple Belt

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    If we are going to base our opinions on objective data i.e. their UFC records, then, no. They legacies don't hold up based on their UFC records.
     
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  11. CBohl

    CBohl Purple Belt

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    Tito is still the best interviewer to ever touch the MMA scene
     
  12. Pierced7681

    Pierced7681 Black Belt

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    Tito’s legacy is more about saving the sport of mma in North America from ppv extinction than title dominance.

    Penns legacy is about fighting at whatever weight he felt like and either winning or making it competitive.

    Both are goats in their own way, both are warriors who deserve hespect.
     
  13. An Uncertain Choice

    An Uncertain Choice Green Belt

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    Their current deeds take nothing from their past feats.
     
  14. SHAZAM

    SHAZAM Brown Belt

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    If thats the case then Chucks career is trash because he got KTFO "when it mattered".
     
  15. ButtNeedle

    ButtNeedle The weather outside is weatherrr

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    Ali and Tyson lost to guys who didnt belong in the same ring (especially Tyson).... But people only talk about Ali and Tyson's greatness all these years later. Not Spinks and McBrides
     
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  16. SalvadorAllende

    SalvadorAllende Interim Belt

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    Tito is in his mid 40s beating cans. His legacy holds up just fine.

    BabyJay is losing like 7 on a row and getting knocked out by shirtless obese guys in the street. His legacy is ruined.
     
  17. LostMyBlackBelt

    LostMyBlackBelt Red Belt

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    Tito never really lost to anyone bad, even though he had a losing streak he never sunk to fighting low level fighters. Hammill was the worst fighter he lost to, and he was at his peak then after beating Jardine and Jon Jones!
     
  18. asdf122345

    asdf122345 Black Belt

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    Tito ortiz is fighting the smart way to retire. Penn took the crazy risk jumping down and up in weight class (cough" featherdivision, welterweight division")
     
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  19. errol ansen

    errol ansen White Belt

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    BJ Penn had too many title shots with not enough luster to hold up, imo. Dicey Record in those matches as well with a record of 2-4-1.

    How weak was WW back then, you might ask? Penn got a WW title shot in his first WW match, with no titles before that, only going 0-1-1 in LW title shots before that match with Hughes.

    For all those title shots he "only" had 3 title defenses. Over twice as many shots as defenses.

    BJ Penn had a title shot every year from 2002-2010 except for 05 and 07.

    Fought Jens Pulver for LW title, Loss.
    Fought Caol Uno for LW title, Draw.
    Fought Matt Hughes for WW title, Huge win, huge, but never attempted to defend.
    Fought Matt Hughes for WW title, Loss.
    Fought Joe Daddy for LW title, Win.
    Fought GSP for WW title, Loss.
    Fought Edgar for LW title, Loss.

    A few hardcore penn fans would claim that, but less and less each year. I don't even think hes the best LW fighter of all time. I've got him in the top 3 or 5.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
  20. Bangkok ready d1

    Bangkok ready d1 Green Belt

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    The only one who ruined his legacy is bj, personaly i think he's overrated as fuck but if he retired 8 years ago everybody would say he was the goat, now he's just a joke
     

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