Bike/Triathlon vs MMA shape debate.

[Deleted member 359865]

We gotta stop with this whole "Bike shape/Triathlon shape isn't fight shape" bull crap. Its ignorant to say that being in shape for a triathlon does not any benefit to a fighter who is already in MMA shape as it is. Training for high stamina endurance competitions help you work on pace, breathing patterns, and heart rate which come fight night make a huge difference in late rounds especially championship rounds in a 5 round fight.

McGregor vs Diaz: On top of that i have yet to see a Diaz brother gas in a fight so it really doesnt make sense as to why people are discrediting Nate Diaz's shape??

 

[RNC&Poke]

True dat

 

[nanika]

Obviously training for a triathlon is better than sitting on the couch or even just running because of the variety of muscle motions. but it also not the same as sparring a shit ton to get into fight shape. might be the second best thing but it is not first best.

 

[auger]

Triathlon shape is not fight shape, you carry significantly more muscle during a fight. Triathlon shape is still excellent shape, but you can carry more abdominal fat if you want, and less muscle overall. Theres a different between cardio conditioning and muscular conditioning to build muscle mass. Training is different as well.

(If we are equals) If i said that I was training for a marathon, while you were training mma for a champion level fight, who would be in better fight shape come fight day? Thats what Nate says in the conference when he mentions "who's sparring"? They are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ANIMALS.

Fighting is EXPLOSIVE and using HIGH INTENSITY INTERVALS over 15-25 minutes.

Do you think training to run and bike and swim for 25 minutes is the same intensity? Just think it through before you post something.

 

[snapster]

For me personally, I typically do a fair amount of endurance athletics stuff, namely running and cycling. But I've always been surprised when doing stuff like playing soccer, how some people who don't run as much seem to have more energy than I do. The point is that it's a different type of output, more stop and go, and I think it might be a slightly different kind of fitness.
Nonetheless I think triathlon training sounds a whole lot better than what Mendes was coming in with.

 

[daltonames]

of course its good for cardio, but training for a triathalon and doing a training camp for a fight are hardly the same thing. BJ penn tried the whole just riding a bike and running on the beach thing instead of a proper training camp. it almost always blew up in his face. its not the same thing.
that said, nate took the fight, nate is getting paid a huge sum of money for the fight. he knows he's only gonna have a few days to train and thats part of the deal. he doesnt give a fuck, so why should anyone else give a fuck.
i for one am very curious to see what kind of shape nate shows up in and how this fight goes. i have no idea whats gonna happen. cant wait for saturday to watch it go down.

 

[Aerose91]

There's much wrong with your thought on this

1) Specificity- you can run marathons and gas out quickly in a fight if you're not practicing fighting

2) its all about peaking and triathletes have to peak also before competing. High level athletics is unhealthy and if you try to stay in peaked shape all the time your health will quickly decline

 

[muaythaibeast]

Triathlon shape is not fight shape. You're conditioned to cycle, swim and run, all constant, endurance movements, whereas fighting is very much explosive action in short bunches. It isn't even similar.
I've been in awesome shape in the military, but as soon as I went back to muay thai I was hanging out after a couple of rounds. It isn't the same thing.

 

[nynjashytt4]

Ninjas stay in battle shape..expect Nate to 'pshh pshh hit em with some good shit'

 

[Deleted member 359865]

of course its good for cardio, but training for a triathalon and doing a training camp for a fight are hardly the same thing. BJ penn tried the whole just riding a bike and running on the beach thing instead of a proper training camp. it almost always blew up in his face. its not the same thing.
that said, nate took the fight, nate is getting paid a huge sum of money for the fight. he knows he's only gonna have a few days to train and thats part of the deal. he doesnt give a fuck, so why should anyone else give a fuck.
i for one am very curious to see what kind of shape nate shows up in and how this fight goes. i have no idea whats gonna happen. cant wait for saturday to watch it go down.

BJ Penn walks on treadmills his cardio is awful and to even compare it to Diaz brother is borderline insulting

 

[Deleted member 359865]

Triathlon shape is not fight shape, you carry significantly more muscle during a fight. Triathlon shape is still excellent shape, but you can carry more abdominal fat if you want, and less muscle overall. Theres a different between cardio conditioning and muscular conditioning to build muscle mass. Training is different as well.

(If we are equals) If i said that I was training for a marathon, while you were training mma for a champion level fight, who would be in better fight shape come fight day? Thats what Nate says in the conference when he mentions "who's sparring"? They are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ANIMALS.

Fighting is EXPLOSIVE and using HIGH INTENSITY INTERVALS over 15-25 minutes.

Do you think training to run and bike and swim for 25 minutes is the same intensity? Just think it through before you post something.

Nate Diaz is an MMA fighter though people keep ignoring that. He knows what it means to be in fight shape, he goes above and beyond that.

 

[Deleted member 359865]

Triathlon shape is not fight shape. You're conditioned to cycle, swim and run, all constant, endurance movements, whereas fighting is very much explosive action in short bunches. It isn't even similar.
I've been in awesome shape in the military, but as soon as I went back to muay thai I was hanging out after a couple of rounds. It isn't the same thing.

but if you were full time Muy Thai and added military shape you would be in shape for both no? Yet again someone else ignoring the fact that Diaz is in shape for both since his JOB is to fight, his hobbies are running triathlons

 

[billharford]

TS outing himself as never having trained or competed in anything serious in his life. If a professional MMA fighter just went through an entire fight camp specifically designed to have his body in peak physical condition on the day of the fight, he is going to be in far superior condition to someone who is training for a sport that taxes the body in a completely different way.

Sure, compared to you Nate is in great shape. But there's a reason they call it "fight shape." Relative to Conor, Nate will be at a cardio disadvantage

 

[deviake]

It's not the same as fight shape, but for sure it helps with his cardio, especially considering he's almost certainly still been at least hitting pads and rolling as well. Really intense aerobic work won't prevent gassing, but it helps with recovery. He also has a clean diet, which helps as well.

He won't be optimum for this fight, but he'll be in decent shape at least. A lot of fighters aren't as clean and productive in their off time as a Diaz brother.

 

[Deleted member 359865]

TS outing himself as never having trained or competed in anything serious in his life. If a professional MMA fighter just went through an entire fight camp specifically designed to have his body in peak physical condition on the day of the fight, he is going to be in far superior condition to someone who is training for a sport that taxes the body in a completely different way.

Sure, compared to you Nate is in great shape. But there's a reason they call it "fight shape." Relative to Conor, Nate will be at a cardio disadvantage

First off...you don't know me, so you have no right to comment on what ive done in my life. Second, I wrestled competitively for 6 years of my life so I actually do know what it takes to train for something serious in life. Third, the only thing Nate may be lacking is fight reflexes, he last fought in February and from what I take it he maintains a somewhat healthy diet, and runs actively, his overall cardio will be fine. Hes been fighting for YEARS, you gotta be a special kind of stupid to think just because he hasnt had a full camp or a two month layoff that hes lost all ability to manage his stamina in fight.

 

[billharford]

First off...you don't know me, so you have no right to comment on what ive done in my life. Second, I wrestled competitively for 6 years of my life so I actually do know what it takes to train for something serious in life. Third, the only thing Nate may be lacking is fight reflexes, he last fought in February and from what I take it he maintains a somewhat healthy diet, and runs actively, his overall cardio will be fine. Hes been fighting for YEARS, you gotta be a special kind of stupid to think just because he hasnt had a full camp or a two month layoff that hes lost all ability to manage his stamina in fight.

Sure his cardio will be "fine," unfortunately he'll be fighting someone who is a at peak performance level. Try "managing your stamina" when someone like McGregor his imposing a pace on you and ripping body shots. lol. Doesn't work like that.

 

[daltonames]

you're also forgetting that a huge part of a camp s coming up with a gameplan and training those elements that are part of that gameplan. Nate will have no time for really any of that. he'll be in okay shape since he just fought 2 months ago, so its not like its been 6 months since he had a camp.

 

[auger]

Nate Diaz is an MMA fighter though people keep ignoring that. He knows what it means to be in fight shape, he goes above and beyond that.

That's true. Although I do disagree and think there is a big fundamental difference. That being said, I do not believe well will be able to tell what kind of shape Nate is until fight night, maybe if he's shredded/flabby at weigh ins

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

Just based off of my personal experience, back when Uncle Tryhard was in the infantry and starting out in BJJ the cardio base I had from running and aggro PT sessions definitely helped me keep pace with far better, infinitely more experienced grapplers. I understand that grappling wasn't fighting, but road work and a healthy lifestyle are absolutely huge in terms of keeping you fit to do anything. This is just one man's opinion, but I truly feel that's how it plays out for most fit people in the real world.

Without question, the Diaz boys are some of the fittest fighters on the planet and I have to believe that their triathlon training is huge in terms of having developed an unbelievable cardio base. Their controlled fighting style and naturally psychotic personalities are huge factors too, but at the end of the day these guys are all around cardio outliers in this sport and I don't see cardio being the determining factor in this fight. Nate will show up in pretty good shape. The reason he will very likely lose has more to do with the lack of quality fight-specific preparation he has put in. His reflexes will be a little slower, his mind may very well not be in the right place because he hasn't had the necessary time to get ready, and he just hasn't had the necessary time to surround himself with speedy southpaws to help simulate McG's style and formulate a winning game plan (what, you don't think the Diaz' game plan?).

Also, Conor's really freakin' good and should be coming in on point and rarin' to go. That part's key.

I don't know who to cheer for in this. So long as it's a good fight, and I think it definitely will be, I'll be a happy man. Would've loved to see Nick in there instead. If Conor could outstrike him I may well have to rename my first born McG.

 

[Deleted member 359865]

Just based off of my personal experience, back when Uncle Tryhard was in the infantry and starting out in BJJ the cardio base I had from running and aggro PT sessions definitely helped me keep pace with far better, infinitely more experienced grapplers. I understand that grappling wasn't fighting, but road work and a healthy lifestyle are absolutely huge in terms of keeping you fit to do anything. This is just one man's opinion, but I truly feel that's how it plays out for most fit people in the real world.

Without question, the Diaz boys are some of the fittest fighters on the planet and I have to believe that their triathlon training is huge in terms of having developed an unbelievable cardio base. Their controlled fighting style and naturally psychotic personalities are huge factors too, but at the end of the day these guys are all around cardio outliers in this sport and I don't see cardio being the determining factor in this fight. Nate will show up in pretty good shape. The reason he will very likely lose has more to do with the lack of quality fight-specific preparation he has put in. His reflexes will be a little slower, his mind may very well not be in the right place because he hasn't had the necessary time to get ready, and he just hasn't had the necessary time to surround himself with speedy southpaws to help simulate McG's style and formulate a winning game plan (what, you don't think the Diaz' game plan?).

Also, Conor's really freakin' good and should be coming in on point and rarin' to go. That part's key.

I don't know who to cheer for in this. So long as it's a good fight, and I think it definitely will be, I'll be a happy man. Would've loved to see Nick in there instead. If Conor could outstrike him I may well have to rename my first born McG.

Great response, you definitely understood the point i was trying to drive home, and our opinions align.