Bigger glutes and hamstrings=more explosive power in punching and kicking

Huh? What do Tyson, Woodley and Ngannou have in common? That they are black and muscular? Tyson was in his prime 30+ years ago. Woodley would do absolutely nothing in a boxing ring and most likely neither would Ngannou.

There's been plenty of boxers with skinny legs and massive KO power, black or otherwise, and boxers today aren't better than 30-40-50 years ago.
Jack dempsey fought in 1920 which was well over 80 years ago, and yes, the guys today are much more technical than back then, dont even try to argue that shit there is also a much deepr talent pool, ngannou would literally balst dempsey into a different dimension, there's levels to athletecism and power.
There is also a differance between a guy that is heavy handed due to large bone structure, big hands, thick wrists, wide shoulders (goerge foreman) and someone like mike tyson that relies on developing power through speed and explosive power, mike has huge hams and glutes.
Anderson silva is also black, lacks any real power due to underdeveloped glutes and legs.
Any of the best athletes have strong glutes and hams, back when i was a sprinter which is imo the best marker for athletecism i had huge glutes and hams, didnt even squat or anything back then, thats just the muscles that get developed with explosive training.
 
How the fuck does hip rotation rely on hamstring strength as the OP would imply?

"Anything done standing up uses the legs"
Well no shit Sherlock but that's not the point.

Rotation is different and involves rotating the upper body to generate torque with hip involvement. The body is a connected system afterall.
Bit this can also be done on the ground without hamstring involvement.

Plenty of guys with insane punch power who lack big hamstrings and glutes.


In order for you to rotate the body as one unit, the motive force comes from the legs, especially the gluteus medius and minoris, that's what 'hip involvement is'. These guys aren't out here breaking their backs twisting in half at the spine, and doing so would be much weaker compared to rotating with the hips, anyways.
 
ngannou would literally balst dempsey into a different dimension

No. No technique to back up his power. Shows only how small the talent pool is in HW division now, if such a guy is considered top.

a guy that is heavy handed due to large bone structure, big hands, thick wrists, wide shoulders (goerge foreman)

Again, no. George put a lot of work in his heavy-handedness when he returned and snatch the crown.

In order for you to rotate the body as one unit, the motive force comes from the legs, especially the gluteus medius and minoris, that's what 'hip involvement is'. These guys aren't out here breaking their backs twisting in half at the spine, and doing so would be much weaker compared to rotating with the hips, anyways.

Top athletes (like Frazier, Dempsey, Moore, etc.) movements are so subtle that for unexperienced guy like TheMaster there are "no legs involved" at all <Lmaoo>.
 
Jack dempsey fought in 1920 which was well over 80 years ago, and yes, the guys today are much more technical than back then, dont even try to argue that shit there is also a much deepr talent pool, ngannou would literally balst dempsey into a different dimension, there's levels to athletecism and power.
There is also a differance between a guy that is heavy handed due to large bone structure, big hands, thick wrists, wide shoulders (goerge foreman) and someone like mike tyson that relies on developing power through speed and explosive power, mike has huge hams and glutes.
Anderson silva is also black, lacks any real power due to underdeveloped glutes and legs.
Any of the best athletes have strong glutes and hams, back when i was a sprinter which is imo the best marker for athletecism i had huge glutes and hams, didnt even squat or anything back then, thats just the muscles that get developed with explosive training.
Sure on average I'd agree that boxers are probably better today, than in the early 1900s, but by the 1950s the sport had evolved. Btw, I'm not convinced that Ngannou would beat Dempsey, even having 40+ lbs on him. Boxers like Pep, Armstrong, Sugar Ray, Louis, Moore, Loche, Benton, Ali and so on are all time greats and were on another level than guys even today. Now consider the second golden era around the 1980s with guys like Hearns, Leonard, Whittaker, Sanchez, Tyson, Toney, McCallum and the list goes on and on. Most current boxers can't touch those guys outside of a few like Loma and Inoue.

I'm not saying that having a strong and powerful lower body isn't a good thing, it is. However you are conflacting looks and size with velocity and strength, and you fail to understand the complexity of the underlying mechanisms of having punching power. Sprinting is good yes, but it isn't boxing. You are necessitating something needlessly. Look at this guy on the right, do you know who he is?

sugar-ray-leonard-thomas-hearns-1981-fight-las-vegas.png
 
In order for you to rotate the body as one unit, the motive force comes from the legs, especially the gluteus medius and minoris, that's what 'hip involvement is'. These guys aren't out here breaking their backs twisting in half at the spine, and doing so would be much weaker compared to rotating with the hips, anyways.

No. Punching is a complex dynamic and cannot be broken down into isolated muscle groups or simplistic attempts to 'measure' it.

It also depends on the type of punch and direction of force and individual differences. As I've said, leg spring is factor but not the main one in punching power which you are trying to argue. It is more about greater whole body coordination where the power can be transferred through the target more efficiently. Along these lines there are a surprising number of experienced boxers who don't even think you can 'teach' or develop punch power (which I largely disagree with) but that it is something you are born with.

Also, Ngannou would get broken down and brutalized by Dempsey, unless your arguing that Stipe could take Dempsey in boxing match also which is laughable.
 
No. Punching is a complex dynamic and cannot be broken down into isolated muscle groups or simplistic attempts to 'measure' it.

It also depends on the type of punch and direction of force and individual differences. As I've said, leg spring is factor but not the main one in punching power which you are trying to argue. It is more about greater whole body coordination where the power can be transferred through the target more efficiently. Along these lines there are a surprising number of experienced boxers who don't even think you can 'teach' or develop punch power (which I largely disagree with) but that it is something you are born with.

Also, Ngannou would get broken down and brutalized by Dempsey, unless your arguing that Stipe could take Dempsey in boxing match also which is laughable.
I don't know man. I agree that there's a lot of contributing factors, but lower body power is an important one. Stronger legs = you can absorb more of the ground impact forces. More powerful legs = you can generate higher impact forces. It doesn't work in a vacuum of course, but combined with the hip rotation power which is also lower body driven, it's pretty significant.
 
Strength training is good for a variety of reasons, but the increase in performance depends largely on the individual and the programming. Size doesn't necessitate power either, especially across weightclasses. A punch is multifaceted.

Oh, and pilates will hardly improve everyones punching power, nor develop the characteristics you are talking about. Doesn't mean it couldn't be useful for developing other attributes that can help your performance.


If you're serious about researching, you have to consider that a single study isn't proof of anything. Participants are unique, there's methodological differences, it's easy to take out of context, there's all sorts of biasis and external/internal validity issues. Doesn't mean it can't be useful, or of high quality, but you have to contextualise individual studies. Otherwise they can do more harm than good.

A, I'm guessing, decades old study with an unknown methodology and no peer review doesn't end the debate. I'm not saying it's wrong, and I agree that lower body power is important in punching, but it's not enough. There's hundreds of studies out there.
Amen
 
lol you remind me of rampage saying he hits hard bc he puts his ass in it



the sport scientists say the same thing
 
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