Big Man Judo Vs. Little Man Judo

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Dedicado, Aug 2, 2005.

  1. Dedicado

    Dedicado Machetero

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    In the thread on "what should I excpect in Aikido" somebody expressed the opinion that Judo entailed going with the flow, or moving with your opponents energy. While these are real aspects of some Judo fighter's game, they are not the definitive basis of judo's principles.

    The most famous of Jigoro Kano's sayings was: " Maximum efficient use of mind and body." This is proly the best single phrase that defines the sport.

    Judo, imo, can be broken down into two categories, Big man and Little man. Please feel free to contribute any ideas on this. Even if you're not a Judoka.
     
  2. Dedicado

    Dedicado Machetero

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    Big man Judo: Power based Judo. Physically powerful, the big man likes to crush his opponent. He doesn't " go with the flow" he dictates the flow. Not necessarily large in the stature, the big man is a powerhouse with a lot of dynamic strength. His techniques may be quite refined, in actual fact, but his grinding style of play makes him a savage sort of guy who likes to steam-roll his weaker opponents.
    He prefers the "big" throws, Sode, Kata-Guruma, Ippon-Seoi, the Maki-Komis, Harai Goshi, Hani Goshi, Yama Arashi and co.
    Famous Big men: Hidehiko Yoshida, Nicholas Gill.
     
  3. Dedicado

    Dedicado Machetero

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    little man Judo: the lil man is a technical fighter, while never weak, he seldom relies on strength alone. He "goes with the flow", until he can throw you with it. Patience, balance, timing and speed of execution are all trademarks of the lil man. His favorite techs are proly: Foot sweeps, tae-otoshi, uchi-mata, to-manage and the likef. Probably the most famous little man was Japan's legendary Koga, other greats are Mike Swain, USA, and Won Hee Lee, R.O.K.
     
  4. Brazilian HKD

    Brazilian HKD Brown Belt

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    good post, dedicado

    another example of these diferences are in karo and fedor

    judo was a great base to my upperbody takedowns, and for my ground game i usually mix these categories depending on who i am fighting
     
  5. nada

    nada White Belt

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    from my experience:

    big man judo- does throws with grips around the waist or over the shoulder to grab the belt

    Little man judo - likes foot sweeps, shoulder throws, controls the arms more.

    Just for reference: I met a 110lb asian girl during my freshman year of college and she threw me like five feet effortlessly when I was trying to learn judo, I was 170lbs then.
     
  6. Cojofl

    Cojofl Brown Belt

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    I actually now that i think of it is more of a case of russian/european judo vs japanese judo if you want to look for the biggest schism in terms of style. Weight classes make the big guy/small arugment somewhat redundant outside of randori.
     
  7. Zankou

    Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    What are the differences between Euro style judo and Japanese style judo (understanding that they are obviously high-level generalities)?
     
  8. Dedicado

    Dedicado Machetero

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    With respect, I'm not referring to big or small people. I'm referring to power and finesse. Weight classes don't eliminate 140 lbs. Dynamos from playing a crushing Big Man game on physically weaker people. And Koga, 160 lbs or so, used a dominating Little Man game on fighters who outweighed him by over 100 lbs. in the Judo Open of the Worlds in the nineties.
     
  9. Dedicado

    Dedicado Machetero

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    As to the Japanese/Euro/Russian styles I can only speculate...Canadian Judo is strongly influenced by Japanese trainers up untill the fall of the Berlin wall. Th end of Comunism brought a lot of high level Judoka from the former U.S.S.R. to Canada, they're styles of play were absorbed by Canadian players like Gill, who had been trained in a Japanese style up untill then. These stylistc divisions are not really huge here in the Great White North, we have adapted both of these "styles" into our game. The Big Man and Little Man genres of play are not unique to Canada (Japanes based) Judo, we found that the former Soviets had similar concepts, as shown to Judoka by the U.S.S.R.'s Osmund Yanner.
     
  10. phenomfan1529

    phenomfan1529 Brown Belt

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    Was she hot? lol
     
  11. Herculean

    Herculean Purple Belt

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    yeah that was me , i was simply just talking about the philosophy because people seems to only consider a hard way? (and i was not talking about the sport of JUDO at all ) .

    but im not denying the hard term , strength is always applied , when you throw you are using strength even if you are going with your opponent.

    i think to say that soft way is not the basis of judo's principles is wrong , read more about Jigoro understand that in JUDO the DO comes from the TAO Taoism "the way" (do not confuse with Taoism the religion) . anyway the whole aspect of the circle motion in judo is what i am talking about as well, it doesn
     
  12. Wild Dan Hibiki

    Wild Dan Hibiki Black Belt

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    Didn't read all the posts so i might've repeated someones post:

    European Judo: Emphasis on pick-ups and "big" judo throws. Big man judo if you will.
    Japanese Judo: Much more emphasis on technique over power. Little man judo.
     
  13. Dedicado

    Dedicado Machetero

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  14. Mighty Feez

    Mighty Feez Brown Belt

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    I see where you are coming from with this, but I think breaking it down into two catagories is still selling the whole thing short. Judo has evolved to the point where fighters all have their own style of Judo and that can change from match to match depending on circumstances.

    A fighter may change his style depending on his opponent for example.....
     
  15. Spoonman7

    Spoonman7 Red Belt

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    I am a big guy, 6 foot 6 and 245 pounds, but I like footsweeps and uchi mata's, most of the small guys I go with have good de ashi barai's and ko uchi's, I have had most success with o soto and o uchi gari
     
  16. Q mystic

    Q mystic Silver Belt

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    Small guy judo usually has classes of approx 15 pds so there isn't going to be a significant advantage in strentgh for one over the other and strength / weight ratio is nicer.
     
  17. Dedicado

    Dedicado Machetero

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    I see your point and I think it is very valid. I feel I must point out that as I broke it down into two categories, there will naturally be a great deal of generalization here. Individual Judoka are constantly pushing the envelope in terms of technique developement and fighting styles, some can even change their style depending on who they are fighting.
    My intention with this thread was dispel a misconception some might have that Judo is all about a smaller person overcoming a larger person by using their own strength against them. If I have misrepresented the facts about Judo here, let all the responsibilty fall to me.
    Many people, myself included, have once thought that with Judo leverage techniques it is possible to send a larger, stronger opponent crashing to the floor, or sailing over your head. I have a poster from a newspaper article dating from 1917, in it, a young japanese woman in a kimono is throwing a huge Sumo wrestler with one hand, the caption read " With Judo, even a weak woman can overcome a giant."
    This picture exemplifies the very myth I was trying to dispel with my Big man/Little man concept; many people around the world still equate Judo with the power to do the unlikely, and see it as a fundamental principal of the sport.
    My post was to try to give a more rounded view of Judo, and not to further spread innacuracy about the art. Thank you for your post, it has helped me to clarify for myself, and maybe for others, the point I was trying to get across originally.
     
  18. Dedicado

    Dedicado Machetero

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    If you're saying what I think you're saying, that Judo weight divisions belong in the Little Man category, then you may have misunderstood my post. These (littleman/bigman) are strategies of fighting, certain technique combinations/choice of techs that may define a style of play, they are not a break down of weight divisions. 15 lbs, btw, is enough to provide an equally skilled opponent a significant advantage in terms of power, especially if those extra pounds come from muscle.
    You may be thinking Open and closed weight divisions in Judo.
     
  19. Mighty Feez

    Mighty Feez Brown Belt

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    Just thought i'd throw that in there....

    Good Thread BTW....
     
  20. Q mystic

    Q mystic Silver Belt

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    Actually I was just saying with the lighter weights we will see nicer looking, cleaner throws due to the speed of the lighter weights. More hand throws. As they get larger, usually more leg attacks. I had a book that gave percentages of scores and throws used per category at olympic and world events.
    Its good that you brought up this thread because some guys on the mma thread feel that Karo is really the only judoka in mma to get good throws. Meanwhile, I see Nak and Fedor getting just as many #-wise. They just don't look as 'brilliant' being heavier. Generally, when watching judo they would prolly see 'nicer' throws in the lite weights also.
    Brian Johnston and Kharitonov are 2 heavys that scored nice ippons that I recall off the top of my head. But, you usually see a couple a fight from the lighter Karo.
    + sure we'll see a stronger 161 pds over another 161 pds but not as significantly as a strong 260 over a strong 225. Doesn't mean we'll get a nice Koga seoi at that weight but more likely a yuko and an oseikomi. Which were scored more as the weights went up.
     

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