Opinion biden public option?

[terrapin]

optoin

Also, is your shift key broken, dude?

i prefer not to use capital letters. i don't see the point in it. its a conscious choice. also i think its elegant looking.

 

[MMAisGod]

In the short term? Because a good healthcare reform bill takes a lot of time. Unless you're the Republicans and want to ram through a terrible bill with zero hearings, amendments, or oversight, it's a long process.

For reference, the ACA took 8 months to get through:

In the medium-term, it might not be doable at all because the Democrats don't have a strong enough majority in the Senate. They need EVERY Democrat in the Senate to support it, and that includes Republican-lite Senators like Joe Manchin, Angus King, and Kristin Sinema. If they flipped seats in places like Iowa, Montana, and South Carolina, it might have been more doable. Specifically, Manchin is EXTREMELY and vocally opposed to single payer healthcare....which is what the public option most likely leads to as a matter of market logic imo.

It's important to remember why the public option failed in 2009. It wasn't a Republican that killed it: it was a conservative Democrat-turned-Independent who killed it. Basically, a guy like Joe Manchin.

In the long-term....well, it's pretty much the same story as the medium-term. If Democrats win more Senate seats in 2022, maybe more ambitious reform becomes more viable.

Forgot about that part during the dispute. Yea I don't think it's easy by any means, but it's worth more of a fight than submission after a week. You guessed it too, I was comparing to the ACA timeline.

Would think that say, a year max, something would get done. Even if not a full overhaul, something that massively improves HC in a general sense and especially in a crisis protection sense. A lot of the politics is momentum based, so why not strike when it's hot? Look how some police reform laws passed that may not have flew if not the momentum. Same here. Imagine you're the Dem, or supposed reasonable Repub, and there's "coverage during crisis improved xyz way" on the table. People would have to put their name to that on paper, against it, in the middle of a pandemic with hundreds of thousands dead. Sounds like a career killer and other Dems can flex their power right now into getting them in line for it.

The opposite of that is them being say "these two Dems are against it" and getting blasted everywhere and nearly guaranteed to lose reelection, where you can replace them with a more forward thinking candidate. But, since they know that, they wouldn't risk it. How I'm seeing it at least.

Planning wise though, it's why I'd try to strong arm since I'm not feeling "more of the same" as the solution. Once we start that path it becomes somewhat of an investment, where it's just what we're doing and how to improve "that" instead of shooting higher. Don't think we have to go full Bern, but we gotta aim better than this for the first attempt.

 

[terrapin]

Forgot about that part during the dispute. Yea I don't think it's easy by any means, but it's worth more of a fight than submission after a week. You guessed it too, I was comparing to the ACA timeline.

Would think that say, a year max, something would get done. Even if not a full overhaul, something that massively improves HC in a general sense and especially in a crisis protection sense. A lot of the politics is momentum based, so why not strike when it's hot? Look how some police reform laws passed that may not have flew if not the momentum. Same here. Imagine you're the Dem, or supposed reasonable Repub, and there's "coverage during crisis improved xyz way" on the table. People would have to put their name to that on paper, against it, in the middle of a pandemic with hundreds of thousands dead. Sounds like a career killer and other Dems can flex their power right now into getting them in line for it.

The opposite of that is them being say "these two Dems are against it" and getting blasted everywhere and nearly guaranteed to lose reelection, where you can replace them with a more forward thinking candidate. But, since they know that, they wouldn't risk it. How I'm seeing it at least.

Planning wise though, it's why I'd try to strong arm since I'm not feeling "more of the same" as the solution. Once we start that path it becomes somewhat of an investment, where it's just what we're doing and how to improve "that" instead of shooting higher. Don't think we have to go full Bern, but we gotta aim better than this for the first attempt.

what are your reasons for thinking more of the same is not a good option at this juncture?

 

[MMAisGod]

what are your reasons for thinking more of the same is not a good option at this juncture?

Because it's lazy imo. Yea Trump sucked donkey and the GOP is becoming a laughing stock cartoonish villain team, but that doesn't mean the Dem's have to become a Team Settle For Less just because they'll end up being better than the badly bad guys.

What they should be doing is the absolute best for the people, which if this is the first option, it's a copout. It should be Plan D or E, not Plan A. At least TRY to use your power into getting the stragglers on board. If it was a military budget or some nonsense we'd have the majority by Monday morning. Put in the work, use the newly acquired power to get the rest in line, do what you gotta do and walk out with a deal for the people. Not one that will increase insurance company profits but also slightly improves things for us.

 

[Trotsky]

Forgot about that part during the dispute. Yea I don't think it's easy by any means, but it's worth more of a fight than submission after a week. You guessed it too, I was comparing to the ACA timeline.

Would think that say, a year max, something would get done. Even if not a full overhaul, something that massively improves HC in a general sense and especially in a crisis protection sense. A lot of the politics is momentum based, so why not strike when it's hot? Look how some police reform laws passed that may not have flew if not the momentum. Same here. Imagine you're the Dem, or supposed reasonable Repub, and there's "coverage during crisis improved xyz way" on the table. People would have to put their name to that on paper, against it, in the middle of a pandemic with hundreds of thousands dead. Sounds like a career killer and other Dems can flex their power right now into getting them in line for it.

The opposite of that is them being say "these two Dems are against it" and getting blasted everywhere and nearly guaranteed to lose reelection, where you can replace them with a more forward thinking candidate. But, since they know that, they wouldn't risk it. How I'm seeing it at least.

Planning wise though, it's why I'd try to strong arm since I'm not feeling "more of the same" as the solution. Once we start that path it becomes somewhat of an investment, where it's just what we're doing and how to improve "that" instead of shooting higher. Don't think we have to go full Bern, but we gotta aim better than this for the first attempt.

It's really a matter of self-interest of the swing voters.

Of the swing votes (Manchin, Sinema, King, Collins, Murkowski), I think Manchin might be the most precarious. If they were voting purely out of the interests of their largely-rural constituents, Manchin, Collins, King, and Murkowski should all be very pro-UHC because rural communities are in risk of getting excluded from the healthcare market for being unprofitable.

However, that's not how it works. They have to be accountable to their voters, and Alaska and West Virginia's voters are all pretty conservative and, being that they are accordingly susceptible to conservative propaganda, they might be against UHC. So I'm assuming Manchin/Murk are out. Similar story with Arizona, so let's assume Sinema is out. That leaves Collins and King, a Republican and an Independent, as the potential belles of the ball.

Best case scenario IMO is we admit Puerto Rico and DC as soon as humanly fucking possible and get four solid (D) Senators to bolster the vote.

 

[MMAisGod]

It's really a matter of self-interest of the swing voters.

Of the swing votes (Manchin, Sinema, King, Collins, Murkowski), I think Manchin might be the most precarious. If they were voting purely out of the interests of their largely-rural constituents, Manchin, Collins, King, and Murkowski should all be very pro-UHC because rural communities are in risk of getting excluded from the healthcare market for being unprofitable.

However, that's not how it works. They have to be accountable to their voters, and Alaska and West Virginia's voters are all pretty conservative and, being that they are accordingly susceptible to conservative propaganda, they might be against UHC. So I'm assuming Manchin/Murk are out. Similar story with Arizona, so let's assume Sinema is out. That leaves Collins and King, a Republican and an Independent, as the potential belles of the ball.

Best case scenario IMO is we admit Puerto Rico and DC as soon as humanly fucking possible and get four solid (D) Senators to bolster the vote.

I'm about to crash but will definitely respond to this tomorrow when I come back on.

WAR DP!

 

[Rocco Siffredi]

Bro he got arrested trying to march with Mandela, stop questioning his honesty.

I wonder if he has 100 days to live. That is why everything is "100 days of X" one hundred days of wearing a mask...100 days of opening borders....100 days of smelling little girls' hair.

Or maybe after 100 days he loses all memory of making a promise. 100 days of sniffing little girl hair!

Fucking President Bidet!

 

[terrapin]

medical bills out of control. housing costs out of control. 3 in 10 american's have difficulty paying medical bills. cost of higher education out of control. social bonds in america failing. increased disparity between the wealthy and the poor. a shrinking middle class and a growing lower class all while some people are becoming richer than ever. a corporate friendly culture that increasingly sees human beings as commodities and robs them of their humanity (i think the anger around this issue is understated). most american's having lost faith in our institutions.

these are very dangerous issues facing us today and our leaders do not seem to be addressing them in real tangible honest ways. i think trump and the growing violence in this country are all just symptoms of these deeper issues.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

i prefer not to use capital letters. i don't see the point in it. its a conscious choice. also i think its elegant looking.

 

[terrapin]

deep penetrating analysis. stop derailing this thread please.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

deep penetrating analysis. stop derailing this thread please.

You are a very sensitive young man. Lighten up, dude.
"i think typing in lower case is elegant" is a weird and funny statement to make. There wasn't much to analyze there, so I went with a picture.

 

[terrapin]

You are a very sensitive young man. Lighten up, dude.
"i think typing in lower case is elegant" is a weird and funny statement to make. There wasn't much to analyze there, so I went with a picture.

please stay on topic. i am 47 years old btw.

please stay on topic.

 

[Whippy McGee]

Dude.... knock it off! He didn't say "Salute the Marines".... he said.... "Sniff the Marines".

 

[UFCUCF]

Trickle Up Economics > Trickle Down Economics

We pay $200 a month for health insurance with a $2500 deductible. Government ain't beating that

For price insurance? I’m moving to North Carolina.

 

[UFCUCF]

he spoke often about a public option during the primaries as a better alternative to uhc from bernie. its on bidens website too as a policy position they support.

once he beat bernie in the primaries he dropped the whole topic. i think that is a lot like lying to the american people. i dont think we have a whole lot of goodwill and tolerance left to spend on this kind of stuff personally. people are hurting and they are pissed.

Sort of looks like you are going out of your way to call Biden names. Where is your thread about Trump’s multiple promises to even unveil is plan to replace Obamacare? If the Republicans would not completely meltdown over a public option Biden does support it. People have a right to be pissed at Republicans for not moving on healthcare reform. If you are for a public option it’s not the left standing in your way.

 

[ElKarlo]

Why not roll out a very basic public option? Like basically general practitioner level preventive care? It’d be basic with no frills no expensive stuff either. Use that to negotiate with drug providers and slowly expand it til it’s basically the same as a private insurance policy

 

[terrapin]

Sort of looks like you are going out of your way to call Biden names. Where is your thread about Trump’s multiple promises to even unveil is plan to replace Obamacare? If the Republicans would not completely meltdown over a public option Biden does support it. People have a right to be pissed at Republicans for not moving on healthcare reform. If you are for a public option it’s not the left standing in your way.

i haven't called him any names.


what i am doing is holding biden accountable for making a public option an important part of his platform during the primaries and then not mentioning it once he won them. that is la lot like lying. in addition he has taken measures that do not in any way signal to anyone, dems or republicans, that he is looking for a public option.

giving subsidies to insurance companies (that he took lots and lots of money from and that basically wrote his emergency plan) rather than expanding Medicaid with the same monies (which would be a nice trial run during a pandemic for the viability of expanding Medicaid permanently, an option he supported publicly) would be a better way forward if he had any of this in mind at all on any level.

this speaks to what many of us thought about biden and said during the primaries which was that we needed somebody who actually truly wanted a public option or universal health care, and that would fight for it with some heart and make it a public issue. we felt biden would not do this and had no will to do it either.

it looks like we were right about that at a time when expanded and vastly improved health care is more needed than ever.



also-- i have been one of the more vocal critics of trump over the last 4 years, (vicious even-- although i think in a measured way that never became petty) but in case you did not notice he lost, is not president anymore and cannot pass or propose any legislation.

 

[terrapin]

Why not roll out a very basic public option? Like basically general practitioner level preventive care? It’d be basic with no frills no expensive stuff either. Use that to negotiate with drug providers and slowly expand it til it’s basically the same as a private insurance policy

 

[jrams]

Sort of looks like you are going out of your way to call Biden names. Where is your thread about Trump’s multiple promises to even unveil is plan to replace Obamacare? If the Republicans would not completely meltdown over a public option Biden does support it. People have a right to be pissed at Republicans for not moving on healthcare reform. If you are for a public option it’s not the left standing in your way.

They currently have the power. You can look back and be disappointed in the way the Republicans handled health care. It was also one of the selling points for Democrats of why you need to "vote blue, no matter who". They got voted in and so it is reasonable to look at what they are proposing or not and judge them based on that.

 

[Jack V Savage]

This whole thread is stupid because the premise is false.

https://www.nbcnews.com/card/biden-health-care-plan-would-build-obamacare-n1029811

DES MOINES, Iowa — Former Vice President Joe Biden unveiled his anticipated health care plan on Monday, framing it as a more achievable way to expand coverage than those proposed by some of his progressive rivals by building on what he has called the “crown jewel” of the Obama administration — the Affordable Care Act.

Americans would have the option of buying into a “Medicare-like” plan or keeping their private insurance under the Biden plan, which would also aim to reverse the Trump administration’s efforts to undercut the law. People living in Republican-led states that failed to expand Medicaid would be given premium free access to Medicaid.

The Biden plan would change provisions in the Affordable Care Act to improve access to health care by eliminating the 400 percent income cap on tax credit eligibility, base tax credits on gold plans rather than silver ones and ensure that those buying insurance in the individual marketplace spend 8.5 percent of their income on insurance, which is down from the previous 9.86 percent cap.

The total cost of the Biden plan is estimated to be $750 billion over the next 10 years, which would mostly be paid for by repealing President Donald Trump’s tax cuts for the wealthy and returning the top tax rate to 39.6 percent.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/me...cal-discussion-n988541/ncrd1030086#blogHeader

What's in: Lowering prescription drug pricing

In an effort to lower the skyrocketing costs of prescription drugs, Biden’s plan would repeal existing law that currently bans Medicare from negotiating lower prices with drug manufacturers. He would also limit price increases “for all brand, biotech and abusively priced generic drugs” and launch prices for drugs that do not have competition, according to a Biden campaign official.

Consumers would also be able to buy cheaper priced prescription drugs from other countries, which could help mobilize competition. And Biden would terminate their advertising tax break in an effort to also help lower costs.

But he's the same as Trump, according to left-wing idiots here.

Ed: The first link is kind of old. The second says it was updated three days ago, but is also old. Not sure what's changed, but I'm not seeing anything that supports the TS's contention still.