Bicep Cutter Unsportsmanlike?

so the guy stopped you from getting the armbar right?

just out of interest, how long do u usually work on one thing before you move on?

if i dont get something right away, i usually try something else instead

but sometimes if i am trying to see how people defend a certain move or something, i'll keep going

as for being cheap, nothing is cheap if its agreed beforehand. if he had been told not to do bicep slicers etc and you do one on him, it would have been unexpected. or maybe where you train nobody else does them because they know its not worth ruining someones arm for a meaningless practise tap.

i think you may just need to be more clear with your training partners
 
I do not want to assume.

To TS, what are the rules?
 
it's not unsportsmanlike. No submission is unsportsmanlike. He's just a sore loser, which, ironically, is very unsportsmanlike.
 
Calibur said:
...if my opponent cant recognize a locked bicep slicer, thats his problem to deal with.
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LOL, having been hit with a friendly bicep slicer a time or two, it's hard to believe that anyone would have trouble at least recognizing that SOMETHING EXTREMELY PAINFUL IS HAPPENING AND I SHOULD MAKE IT STOP IMMEDIATELY. :D

Which is why IMO bicep slicer is a different story than heel hook. The issue with heel hook as I understand it is that it can be relatively pain free until it's too late. A bicep slicer, in contrast, hurts like hell.
 
SteelHammer said:
it's not unsportsmanlike. No submission is unsportsmanlike. He's just a sore loser, which, ironically, is very unsportsmanlike.
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See, that's my general approach. Unless it's something like a heel hook and you crank it, where there is a high potential for injury and you apply it with intent to injure. Or if the guys is injured and you attack that limb.
 
Looking up the rules, there is nothing against the bicep cutter in the particular comp. we are all training for. It is a valid submission and in this case, wasn't even used as one.

I wouldn't bitch if the shoe was on the other foot. Then again, I wouldn't lock my hands together and hang on for dear life to defend an armbar either. I think I taught him a lesson. He should give me $20. LOL
 
Red Harvest said:
To clarify a question asked ^^.

A bicep cutter can be very dangerous and can cause permanent damage if left applied at full force. I would never apply it in such a manor unless I was in active competition.
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Hmm, my humor wasn't coming through. Someone was saying that a pain submission would cause damage (at least beyond psychological damage), which strikes me as a bit of an oxymoron.
 
akharon said:
Hmm, my humor wasn't coming through. Someone was saying that a pain submission would cause damage (at least beyond psychological damage), which strikes me as a bit of an oxymoron.
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Slicer - the pain comes first and u can deal with it THEN the break can happen

Arm Bar - the break will probably come before the pain. Its not like u can deal with the pain with an arm bar....ur arm is broke by that time
 
As the idea in BJJ is to cause enough pain that some ones submits . I find that the OP is Correct
BITCHES the lot of 'em
 
akharon said:
That said, shouldn't purples and below (and I'm speaking as a blue belt here) be prepared for everything? It's not like a bicep slicer has the same potential for lightning fast long term injury like a heel hook. It's just another way to break a grip and complete an armbar. At my school we do them as much as anything else. Of course, we're more of a self-defense oriented school that happens to compete every now and then, so the notion of "don't do this until a certain level" doesn't apply unless you're talking heel hooks, crucifix as a submission, and cranking necks.
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Wait!? A crucifix is illegal/unsportsman like!?

The one you get when the guy turtles so you trap an arm between your legs, you grab the other arm and trap it with your arms and collar choke him after you roll over his shoulder!? How is this any different from a bow-and-arrow or any other collar choke?
 
You were rolling with a couple bitches. Slicers were some of the first moves I learned when I started BJJ, they've always been present.
 
LegLockUnicorn said:
Wait!? A crucifix is illegal/unsportsman like!?

The one you get when the guy turtles so you trap an arm between your legs, you grab the other arm and trap it with your arms and collar choke him after you roll over his shoulder!? How is this any different from a bow-and-arrow or any other collar choke?
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I believe he means Crucifix neck crank, not Crucifix hold-down.
 
Red Harvest said:
Quick question. While rolling the other day I found myself with an armbar attempt blocked by the classic vanilla defense of "I'll just lock my hands together and hold on for dear life". The guy had a grip from hell. I could not kick his arm free if my life depended on it. Now I'm fairly strong and it just wasn't happening so I did what I've always done to break grip.......bicep cutter. The grip broke and I finished the armbar. Time to roll again right? Noooooooo. I had to listen to a ration of shit from the guy about how unsportsmanlike a bicep cutter is and believe it or not, others were agreeing with him! I have been training in BJJ for 13 years (11 years consecutively....long story) and I have never once heard anyone bitch about a bicep cutter to break grip. Keep in mind, I didn't submit him with it, it was used quickly to break his grip. I'm fairly certain I just rolled with a couple of bitches but seeing as how they had been actively competing in the past 2 years and I hadn't, I wanted some verification on this. Am I losing my mind here?
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Are they then against any kind of pain move for breaking the armbar free?
I mean, even pulling like a mad man causes a good deal of bicep and lower arm pain.


Also, do they solely train for sports BJJ competition rules or what is this nonsense?
 
kingwilly said:
I believe he means Crucifix neck crank, not Crucifix hold-down.
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Correct. Do the setup LLU described, rolling onto your butt, having the back of the other guy's head being the only thing touching the floor, his body weight trying to flip over, putting insane pressure on his neck (and quite possibly breaking it).
 
Biceps slicers are only allowed at Brown Belts under IBJJF rules.

Some guys like to train under such rules and some do not.

I think TS was training for a competition that allows biceps slicers anyway.
 
I'm curious to see the move TC is referring to. Would anyone have a description or a link to a video of the bicep slicer in this context?
 
lechien said:
Biceps slicers are only allowed at Brown Belts under IBJJF rules.

Some guys like to train under such rules and some do not.

I think TS was training for a competition that allows biceps slicers anyway.
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granted, this is the submission and not just the grip break (although you'll get guys screaming "bicep slicer" and begging for a DQ if you get there).

I think this is the biggest bunch of bullshit ever.

If I was the TS (with over 10 years of experience), I would say "Please explain why this is unsportsmanlike" and after they gave me their moronic answer, I'd respond with "You fucking whitebelt/bluebelt idiots don't know shit about this sport. I didn't even go for the submission. Now move your dumb ass out of my way so I can roll with someone else that's more interested in progressing than whining."
 
I have no problem with them. The guys at my gym have no problem with them. My instructor sometimes teaches us bicep slicer techniques, but makes sure to tell us not to do them in competitions (unless you're a brown belt or higher). So yeah, those guys were whining.
 
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