Bicep/Calf Slicers

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Surtur, Jun 29, 2008.

  1. Surtur

    Surtur Yellow Belt

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    I was wondering if anybody could tell me why most tournaments do not allow these submissions in competition.

    I had this conversation with a friend and neither of us knew why this was the case.
     
  2. anaconda

    anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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    They're dangerous but theyre also pain moves. In a comp you might tell yourself you can take the pain until you end up getting seriously injured.
     
  3. How I Roll

    How I Roll White Belt

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    I've only been caught in a bicep slicer once, and I think the danger is that it is not overly painful until it's too late. I actually tried to limp arm and juke the guy off of me. It wasn't till after the match was called I realized my elbow joint was actually really hurting.
     
  4. Slithers

    Slithers Green Belt

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    politics

    /thread
     
  5. anaconda

    anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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    /no
     
  6. Slithers

    Slithers Green Belt

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    lol

    seriously, that is the reason, though. no need for any more argument, really. the bicep slicer was employed on a Rickson fighter who refused to tap. He ended up breaking his arm and the move was then banned.
     
  7. hayliks

    hayliks Banned Banned

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    you can break somebody's arm with a bicep slicer, and I mean the bone because of the pressure. i don't know why calf slicers are illegal.
     
  8. anaconda

    anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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    How is that politics? Lots of idiots wouldnt tap because they think they can take the pain. By the time they realize they should tap, its too late.
     
  9. Slithers

    Slithers Green Belt

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    You could say the same about a regular old armbar, too. Some idiots think they can take the pain, but instead they break or pop their arm. They don't ban the armbar though.

    Its politics because Rickson is probably the only person who could influence the rule book in this way. Rickson's fighter could not compete in his MMA match as a result of his broken arm. The fighter had plenty of time to tap, but refused to submit. It is his own fault., IMO. No need to ban the move. meh... my 2
     
  10. hayliks

    hayliks Banned Banned

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  11. joshv5.0

    joshv5.0 BJJ Revolution Team

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    the answer is simple, there are too many rules in bjj tourney's


    it's a submission tournament, all of them are dangerous. if you don't tap then it sounds like you've got no one to blame but yourself
     
  12. Trickster***

    Trickster*** Banned Banned

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    I happen to love both these moves so Id like to see them allowed. However, they can cause some serious damage!!

    If you chose to compete you should understand when to tap out or suffer the consequences. Just my humble opinion!
     
  13. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    Same goes for me.
     
  14. jjwvic

    jjwvic Green Belt

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    imo you have plenty of time to tap before something bad will happen..when you feel pain tap plain and simple
     
  15. anaconda

    anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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    Its easy to say "when you feel pain tap." How many of you who want these moves have competed and compete regularly?

    Its much harder to gauge pain in a competition. Ive been armbarred before and I tapped not because it hurt but because I felt my arm pop. It was sore as hell later but during the competition you dont really feel the pain. Lots of stupid people (and even smart ones) will get caught in a biceps slicer, for example when passing the guard, and even if they are in pain they will think "If I just hold on I'll get the points for the pass." The guy on the bottom will crank, the guy on top wont tap, and bad things will happen.
     
  16. sprite

    sprite Banned Banned

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    i got bicep sliced and my arm was in agony for 5 weeks

    i withheld tapping for like 2-3 seconds because of my pride but still that small amount of time set me back 5 weeks.

    it is a dangerous move
     
  17. Ballz_Onya_Chin

    Ballz_Onya_Chin Blue Belt

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    Both hurt really bad. But as people have stated, no one taps in competition as quickly as they should.
     
  18. Trickster***

    Trickster*** Banned Banned

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    I dont think its harder to gauge pain...I think its harder to tap bc of ego and competitive spirit. I was in a straight ankel lock yesterday in the tourney and it hurt but I knew he wasnt going to pop it....if I felt any real danger I would have tapped and lived to compete another day.
    I happen to think ALL subs should be legal for every division. If a white belt is good enough to set up and finish a heel hook than god bless! It should be the responsibility of both the student and the teacher to learn ALL techniques before entering a competition! Again, just my humble opinion!
     
  19. anaconda

    anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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    Ok, so you were good enough to know everything you would ever need to compete in the first few months of bjj?

    Lol get real. Imagine a 2 year whitebelt putting a heel hook on a 4 month whitebelt. "Oh the 4 month white belt should have waited to compete." That defeats the whole purpose of competition.

    As far as heel hooks - even the black belt gi divisions dont have heel hooks. Do they not understand enough? Or are the inherent dangers present in heel hooks enough reason to warrant excluding them? Almost invariably, the injuries I saw in the mundials this year in the black belt division were from toe holds. Even if it is just ego, thats all the more reason to have rules so the athletes dont hurt themselves.

    Maybe football players should just learn how to deal with horse collars?
     
  20. Wolfwood

    Wolfwood Banned Banned

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    I broke my radiaql bone in a match. I shoot for a double passed most of the way except for my arm got caught thought I could escape put my knee on his belly and pulled then the bone broke first thing I thought and I kid you not is I wonder why his shoe lace snapped then the searing pain hit
     

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