Best wrestling takedowns for GI bjj Comp?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by armtriangle, Mar 27, 2008.

  1. armtriangle

    armtriangle Brown Belt

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    I have 3 techniques i use. I have never given up a takedown in bjj or submission grappling in about 20 matches. to be honest my whole game has always been about getting on top and staying there in comp. i have competed in no-gi extensively. in gi comp, i have only competed once, at SHW.

    1) as soon as my opponent reaches for a lapel i snatch his arm into a russian tie and shoot a single or double whiel shoving the 2 on 1 across his body.

    2) if my opponent gets a grip, i use a high collar grip and look for knee or ankle pick / slide by & duck under combos.

    3) if my opponent pushes in or underhooks, u use an outside firemans or dump

    these setups have worked well for me, and usually start me out in or back control. i am now lighter though and am a little more concerned about takedowns. Judo takedowns just dont work for me,with a few exceptions. i have trained in judo for a couple of years, but my wrestling takedowns are FAR superior to my judo throws. I do like some of judo ankle trip / ankle pick combos. but i am more of a slippery style takedowns person.

    what takedowns / combos do you guys use in bjj GI comp? or do you just wait for teh othe rguy to make a mistake? if someone pull guard on me, i just shove them off and wait.
     
  2. Wrestleben

    Wrestleben Brown Belt

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    I try to keep distance instead of clinching and then arm drag into outside singles or blast doubles.
     
  3. tapskillz

    tapskillz White Belt

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  4. armtriangle

    armtriangle Brown Belt

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  5. ShanghaiBJJ

    ShanghaiBJJ Brown Belt

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    For Gi or No Gi?
     
  6. tapskillz

    tapskillz White Belt

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    no-gi takedowns will always work with a gi on! but not the other way around.
     
  7. Wrestleben

    Wrestleben Brown Belt

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    You can stop spamming your website now. Put up some original content and call me in the morning.
     
  8. armtriangle

    armtriangle Brown Belt

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    1. that is nowhere near true.

    2. no one is going to click on your links. we only click on fine-nike.com
     
  9. tapskillz

    tapskillz White Belt

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    chill dude!

    i should have said:

    you can always apply a no-gi takedown to someone wearing a gi, but you can't always apply a gi takedown to someone not wearings a gi.
     
  10. franz_grinder

    franz_grinder Huggernaut

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    <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/x3Ta_81j4Io&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/x3Ta_81j4Io&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

    Thanks to qiksilver for the vid.

    The step behind ankle pick that Jacare uses throws off most people without wrestling or judo experience.

    Also.

    Grab your opponents left side collar with your right hand, quite often a bjj'r with no cross-training (pending school) will grab either underneath your right arm near your elbow or around your ribs/midsection. If you overhook your right arm over his left arm and use your left hand to pass his left side collar to to your right hand you will have achieved a cross collar grip with an overhook while standing up. Their are a ton of great throw options from here.

    Also alot of Bjj'rs like to get low in their stance almost like a freestyle wrestler. This allows for a Russian grip or over hook-belt belt grip.

    [​IMG]

    The O and Ko Uchi Gari options from here are great. Also Osotogari and Soto Makikomi are great sacrifice throws to mount from here. Usually in Judo an opponent would have to be taller to use this but like I said alot of pure Bjj guys will bend down.


    These three setups and their options were my answer to the BJJ sloppy twist to O uchi, Harai or Uchi throw game that plagues the BJJ comps.
     
  11. Delbjj

    Delbjj Green Belt

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    Not so much true.

    The gi makes it difficult to shoot and penetrate, so no you can't really "wrestle" in a gi very easily.


    I am not a wrestler, but I teach Judo to a bunch of guys who are.

    Best moves for wrestlers, Kata-Garuma, Ankle picks, learning the belt grip and pickups.
     
  12. armtriangle

    armtriangle Brown Belt

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    but it would still be wrong. there are plenty of no-gi TD's that simply dont work if youre wearing a gi. my personal bread and butter TD, a slide by, is pretty impossible to hit in the traditional way witha gi. your opponent has to ear to ear tie to hit it, and when wearing a gi, if someone goes ear to ear (which almost never happens in gi comp) they grab you collar behing the neck... so when you hit the slide by, they dont let go, which is critical. you have to make slight variations in your wrestling TD's to make them work in a gi, hence the thread.

    i would take it easier on you if you didnt join this week and link your website in 50% of your posts.
     
  13. armtriangle

    armtriangle Brown Belt

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    i have never understood the obsession with throws in bjj comp. it doesnt seem liek a very good risk/reward payoff to me. throws are lower percentage than shots. and if you miss a throw you lost teh takedown without your opponent having to do anything. i undertand in judo (obviously) and wrestling, because if you hit it you get takedown points and probably back points. but in bjj where a takedown is a takedown i dont understand why everyone wants to throw.
     
  14. franz_grinder

    franz_grinder Huggernaut

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    To be honest I ankle pick damn near 99 percent of my competition opponents.
     
  15. georgejjr

    georgejjr Black Belt

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    If you're working gi based BJJ, throws work better than shots because shots can be relatively easily be stuffed using the gi. ie throws are higher percentage than shots. Any wrestler who goes into judo afterwards (like me) learns this pretty quickly.

    If you're working no-gi BJJ, go for wrestling takedowns, they're more efficient than judo throws if there's no gi.

    Think about it - judo has spent decades perfecting taking people down while wearing gi's. Shots and picks etc from wrestling are legal in judo and sometimes used, but they're not the most efficient thing while wearing a gi. Wrestling has spend decades perfecting taking people down while not wearing gi's. Hip tosses and leg reaps are legal in wrestling and sometimes used, but aren't the most efficient thing while not wearing a gi.
     
  16. armtriangle

    armtriangle Brown Belt

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    i disagree. i think doubles and singles are higher percentage in a gi and in no-gi. throws are used in judo because of the scoring in judo. also much of time a in judo you really dont land in a great position... its teh throwing that counts not the landing well. also if you miss a shot, you are still in a fairly good position. if you miss a throw, you got taken down. i liek throws, i just am much better at other takedowns. I did take judo for a couple of years, i never ran into anyone that could stop an outside shot by blocking with the gi... unless they already had a grip. once they gave a grip, i agree, its hard to get in.
     
  17. qiksilverman

    qiksilverman Blue Belt

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    your welcome haha
     
  18. Q mystic

    Q mystic Silver Belt

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    the ankle picks he's using are called ku/uchiki-daoshi in judo. I didn't know that Jacare used them. I knew he liked kouchi. Sweet.:D
     
  19. georgejjr

    georgejjr Black Belt

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    If you did judo for a couple of years you wouldn't have been fighting at a competitive level (not a knock on you, someone with a couple years of wrestling isn't wrestling at a college level, and someone with a couple years of BJJ is not grappling in the purple belt division). In any sport, what works at beginners levels is not necessarily what works at higher levels. You probably know this in BJJ, but its true in judo and wrestling as well. At higher levels people can defend against anything in the rules.

    There are a lot of people who do both judo and wrestling at a pretty high level (for instance most of the Russian national teams in both judo and wrestling cross train) ... and still you don't see them regularly doing shots in judo or hip tosses in wrestling.

    Moreover, it's definitely not because of scoring. Most olympic judo matches are decided by a koka or yuko, and a successful shot would easily give you that, and with modern judo refereeing even an ippon (all you have to do is get the guy's back on the mats). If it were that easy to pull off it'd be all you see in the olympics, because at that level you do whatever it takes to win - they don't worry about style or if its pretty, winning is everything. In fact some of them used to win by getting their opponents to take silly boundary penalties until they changed the rules a couple of years ago - one penalty (the equivalent of a koka) would more often than not be enough to win a match. At a competitive level everyone can sprawl, and the sprawl works better on a gi.
     

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