best wrestlers (in the world) are gonna get beat in Future UFC/MMA WRESTLING IS NOT BEST MMA BASE

[-guerilla-]

Have you met Velasquez, Lesnar, Jones, Cormier, Weidman, Romero, GSP, Usman, most of the welterweight division, Khabib, Edgar, Johnson, and Cejudo to name a few?

Yep...but none of them are the best wrestlers in WRESTLING

So..how come

(Since wrestling is the best base for MMA)

Why dont The wrestlers who beat all those guys in wrestling come over and beat them in MMA

there's a lot more money in MMA than there is in wrestling and they were beaten soundly and consistently by other wrestlers

why don't those better wrestlers come over and get their MMA paycheck??

Lots of guys beat Jon Jones in wrestling BECAUSE they're better wrestlers

Jon Jones is not the best wrestler in the world!

 

[beastman]

Because ONE wrestler lost? Lol

How many current champs are wrestlers?

Cejudo, Usman, Jones, Cormier, Colby(interim), Poirer(interim HS wrestling)

The best guys can strike and grapple, it will be that way forever.

 

[-guerilla-]

Just train flying knees & fast track to the title.

Actually it's not worth trying in most cases because if that wrestler has a knee or hand down you're going to get dq'd

that's the way the American MMA system is engineered

And knees still score lots of awesome knockouts

what a great example of how incredibly effective knees are against wrestlers

I would go so far as to say they are the very best tool to use against wrestlers

you just can't use them whenever you're on the ground

you know thats the place wrestlers seem to do the best...because you cant knee them anymore!!

 

[GrantB13]

Yep...but none of them are the best wrestlers in WRESTLING

So..how come

(Since wrestling is the best base for MMA)

Why dont The wrestlers who beat all those guys in wrestling come over and beat them in MMA

there's a lot more money in MMA than there is in wrestling and they were beaten soundly and consistently by other wrestlers

why don't those better wrestlers come over and get their MMA paycheck??

Lots of guys beat Jon Jones in wrestling BECAUSE they're better wrestlers

Jon Jones is not the best wrestler in the world!

Ok. So aside from BJJ, who has ever been the best boxer, kickboxer, judoka, etc. and still fought MMA? The absolute best don't really leave their field because that's what allowed them to be the best. You don't get extremely good at a lot of things by jumping around different sports. Mayweather never fought MMA, Ernesto Hoost never fought MMA, and almost any other best at another sport had never competed in MMA. Also, really good MMA wrestlers don't get submitted very often. They are known for being able to stifle BJJ artists a lot of the times by being on balance and not giving them space.

 

[Jojomojo]

Wow the comments under this thread are completly stupid...
Wrestling is NOT a bad base in MMA (prob the best)
But in the next 5 years you wont see so much wrestlig only specialists.
This is just facts. Muy Thai guys with decent Tdd will come up and challenge those dudes.
That being said, if you can combine your wrestling background with decent set-ups (like Cejudo, Cormier, Jones, Romero etc. and unlike Askren, Khabib, Blaydes, Colby) you still fine, i guess.

 

[-guerilla-]

alright guys seems like a lot of confusion out there

look at it this way if wrestling was the best base for MMA the best wrestlers would come over and get the big MMA paychecks

there is no money whatsoever in wrestling

the fact is they don't and the reason why is because wrestling is not the best base for MMA

combat sambo and shooto are!!

the problem is we don't have any combat Sambo or shooto in the United States

Most of our jujitsu/muay thai guys are strip mall soibois and most of our wrestlers are badass public school roughnecks

so naturally wrestling dominates American MMA

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-real-reason-wrestlers-dominate-the-ufc-american-mma.3959991/

 

[superpunch]

I actually agree that in the long term, wrestlers will decline against strikers.

Why?

Being a small % better at striking allows you to do more damage than being a small % better at wrestling allows you to control a fight.

So strikers have to close a smaller wrestling gap than wrestlers do a striking gap to nullify the style.

If you ever watch a wrestling match, it's fucking boring. It almost got taken out of the Olympics for a reason. They have rules against stalling for a reason. A college wrestler can 'stall' against a world champion and completely nullify him. A 'college boxer' will never be able to stall out a world champ boxer and make every round 10-10. Evade lots of damage, sure, but not all.

The best wrestlers in the game only get opportunities to attempt takedowns like once a round. Strikers get opportunities to throw punches every 10 seconds. So, at a high skill level, wrestling is more able to be nullified.

It's like how wrestlers could nullify BJJ guys by being only 10% as skilled as a BJJ guy but to a much smaller extent. But as MMA guys get more skilled in the long term, that smaller extent will be much more exploitable.

 

[-guerilla-]

I actually agree that in the long term, wrestlers will decline against strikers.

Why?

Being a small % better at striking allows you to do more damage than being a small % better at wrestling allows you to control a fight.

So strikers have to close a smaller wrestling gap than wrestlers do a striking gap to nullify the style.

If you ever watch a wrestling match, it's fucking boring. It almost got taken out of the Olympics for a reason. They have rules against stalling for a reason. A college wrestler can 'stall' against a world champion and completely nullify him. A 'college boxer' will never be able to stall out a world champ boxer and make every round 10-10. Evade lots of damage, sure, but not all.

The best wrestlers in the game only get opportunities to attempt takedowns like once a round. Strikers get opportunities to throw punches every 10 seconds. So, at a high skill level, wrestling is more able to be nullified.

It's like how wrestlers could nullify BJJ guys by being only 10% as skilled as a BJJ guy but to a much smaller extent. But as MMA guys get more skilled in the long term, that smaller extent will be much more exploitable.

I think you have a point mathematically but the thrust behind this thread is that wrestling is not the best base for MMA

this idea is radically counter to the conventional wisdom of modern mma

wrestling is the best base for MMA (that's available to the average American)

it is by far inferior to multiple other styles like pankratIon, shooto, combat sambo and even BJJ

wrestlers are doing well because of the modern rule sets and the fact that they have an opportunity to cut their teeth in the rough and tumble public school system

Whereas martial arts training in this country requires a good car a good bank account and plenty of free time

that's something not available to a lot of the toughest fighters in our nation

the fact is people believe wrestling is the best base for MMA and subsequently believe in the fallacy that the best wrestler is going to do the best in MMA

hybred MMA specialist fighters will eventually take the crown from the wrestlers just like the wrestlers took the crown from the BJJ guys of yore

Despite the fact that we don't have pure MMA training available in America commonly

they will come from other countries that have developed better training opportunities for a lrager crosssection of their population

like Russia

 

[jx820]

Sure, unless you count the Flyweight, Bantamweight, Lightweight, Welterweight, Light Heavyweight or Heavyweight champ you can totally see how the wrestling base with decline.

Maybe OP means WMMA?

 

[Alpha_T83]

well all you said is irrelevant since wrestling is the best base for mma and will continue to be so.
wrestling > all other combat sports

I'd agree purely because of the conditioning and weight cutting.

When I was training BJJ and Muay Thai in an MMA gym, the guys with the best conditioning were by far the wrestlers. The boxers also had damn good conditioning, but they really struggled with kicks and the ground game.

The guys with the worst conditioning were the judo guys. They were strong as hell, but if you could hang on for a few minutes they gassed out. For some reason we nicknamed them the "Judo Thugs". No clue why.

The weight cutting is purely speculation on my part, but wrestlers tend to cut a lot of weight to compete. I would assume that getting the "science" of weight cutting down early on is an advantage for MMA fighters.

 

[apap]

Well...That's like your opinion, man.

 

[JustBleed69]

The sport is evolving

UFC and other American mma promotions are doing everything in their power to advantage the American wrestler because they want "all american champs" so they can sell swag to the fake wrestling NASCAR fanboys [smart business]

Wrestlers have lots of terrible habits that leave them vulnerable to good knee artists and the best submission guys

the most accomplished wrestlers are NEVER gonna be that good in mma and just get "fluffed" up for the slack jawed fanboys

These athletes have spent so many years learning to perfect their "sport grappling" they are ultra specialists

[just like SPORT BJJ guys]

profit minded gym owners push the fallacy that training in 5 different martial arts / sports = the ultimate mix for MMA

The fact IS specialists are getting pushed out of MMA

Wrestlers days are numbered

Just like the BJJ days of yore...lol

wonder when we will actually have MMA training in the USA

NOT

Muay thai + BJJ + wrestling = MMA

there are a lot of wrestlers who are simply holding on the the underbelly of MMA as their sport is slowly absorbed

desperately clinging on to MMA for relavance

the bad news is....

the ride is gonna get tougher!!!

Good Knee artists lolol

Anyways, 7-9 current champs are wrestlers, a majority of the top 10 in every male weight class are wrestlers, and it's been like that for over a decade now.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Good Knee artists lolol

Anyways, 7-9 current champs are wrestlers, a majority of the top 10 in every male weight class are wrestlers, and it's been like that for over a decade now.

Agreed. I don't see wrestlers going anywhere.

 

[freakroor]

Wrestlers have lots of terrible habits that leave them vulnerable to good knee artists and the best submission guys

Oh for sure no knees to a downed opponent and the cage help wrestlers or just grapplers in general a lot

allow knees to the head of a grounded opponent and we'll see about that...

 

[asdf122345]

We'll see about that. Usman is doing well and so is Cormier. Wrestler bless.

 

[tsully]

Robbie Lawler and Jose Aldo are perfect examples.

They are the best anti-wrestlers and wrestlers often lose to them because of their high level stand up fighting skills and immense wrestling defence. Once they stop their take down. They leave the wrestlers standing and knock them out.

Now Israel is jumping into this wave. In the future, wrestling won't be as effective as now.

But Robbie is a good anti wrestler because he is a wrestler that has good stand up.

 

[Superman Elbow]

Looks like the majority of us disagree with you based on the 2 likes you got and the hundreds everyone else got calling you an idiot.

 

[Normot]

Jon Jones and Henry Cejudo have already proved that American Wrestling is the best by beating all the lame foreign strikers by using striking techniques they learned in a few years of half assing it.
/Thread

 

[Superman Elbow]

alright guys seems like a lot of confusion out there

look at it this way if wrestling was the best base for MMA the best wrestlers would come over and get the big MMA paychecks

there is no money whatsoever in wrestling

the fact is they don't and the reason why is because wrestling is not the best base for MMA

combat sambo and shooto are!!

the problem is we don't have any combat Sambo or shooto in the United States

Most of our jujitsu/muay thai guys are strip mall soibois and most of our wrestlers are badass public school roughnecks

so naturally wrestling dominates American MMA

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-real-reason-wrestlers-dominate-the-ufc-american-mma.3959991/

Or maybe it takes a special kind of guy to be down to get punched in the face and just because someone is a better wrestler doesn't mean they have a better chin.

 

[Dark Individual]

Hw champ - wrestler
Lhw champ - wrestler
Mw champ - wrestler
Ww champ - wrestler
Lw champ - wrestler
Bw champ - wrestler
Flw champ - wrestler

But yeah wrestling is dying