Best style for takedown defense?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by c0r1nth14n, Sep 1, 2010.

  1. c0r1nth14n

    c0r1nth14n Blue Belt

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    I thought this would be a common question, but I checked the FAQs and searched and couldn't find it. I have absolutely zero grappling experience, but I've been doing Muay Thai for a while and I've started thinking about picking up a grappling art next. BJJ seems to be the popular art these days, but from what little I've read about grappling, it seems like BJJ, judo, and wrestling all have a different focus. The FAQ helped out some with the differences between judo and BJJ, but what I'm really wondering is what style you guys would recommend for takedown defense. I know it's subjective and there is no one correct answer, just curious as to what your opinions are and why. Thanks!
     
  2. Mackavelli

    Mackavelli Purple Belt

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    Freestyle or folkstyle wrestling. They deal with all types of takedowns.
     
  3. Supereem

    Supereem Black Belt

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    Think of it like this.

    Wrestling will keep it standing so you can use your muay thai

    But BJJ will defend you when you are taken down (submission defence/strike defence).
     
  4. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    for tkd defense, it is wrestling or Judo. whatever is available.

    BJJ would be the last option because they fight off their back so giving 2 point away for beein tkd or pulling guard is not a big deal for them.
     
  5. phillys-finest

    phillys-finest Red Belt

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    You don't train BJJ to learn takedowns or takedown defense. You can be great at BJJ and horrible at both.

    WRESTLING
     
  6. sanchezero

    sanchezero Green Belt

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    buttscooting is the definitive defense against all forms of takedowns.
     
  7. shouldercharge

    shouldercharge Dave Camarillo idoliser

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    use your muay thai knee to the head when people shoot ;) its hard to take someone down when your ko'd.

    but in all seriousness free style wrestling or judo depending on what schools are in your area.if you can get quality instruction in both then check them out and just go with what ever is most convenient/cheaper/you enjoy more/has the better training partners i'm sure once you try a few clubs one club will just "click" with you it may be wrestling or it maybe judo both will do the job.
     
  8. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    Purely for takedown defense? If you're talking about gi/clothing, judo. If you're talking about no gi or MMA, freestyle wrestling.

    However regardless, you should learn how to be skilled on the ground and prepare for the worst case scenario. My Muay Thai coach trains bjj and judo, for what that's worth.
     
  9. InvertedBJJ

    InvertedBJJ Green Belt

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    I would have to say Kung Fu bc by the time anyone shoots in they are already knocked out.
     
  10. c0r1nth14n

    c0r1nth14n Blue Belt

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    Thanks for the tips! I don't currently have any plans to do MMA fighting, I just like this stuff and figured I'd try to expand a bit and see what I like. For some reason, takedown defense stuff appeals to me more than rolling. When i get back to the US in a few months I'll probably be switching - quality wrestling should be easy to find, and judo shouldn't be a problem in LA. One more question: is there a thread that explains the differences between these different kinds of wrestling? I read some stuff on wikipedia, but it was a bit too much information and I think I just made myself more confused :p
     
  11. knoxpk

    knoxpk Black Belt

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    Very Basic watered down explanation.

    Folkstyle is about takedown and control found in most US HS's and College programs- examples of how Folkstyle can be used is Chuck Lidell- Sprawl and Brawl, escape when taken down. Matt Hughes- Take down to control, Ground and pound and in some cases even a submission or Mark Coleman- the grandfather of Ground and pound.

    Freestle/Greco- far more exposure to takedowns and throws, less focus on the mat due to a limited time to work before a ref stands you back up. GSP- great takedowns probably one of the best in that regard. You will note how he had some issues with Hardy when Hardy turtled though. I attribute that to FS and Greco training. I feel a great Folk style wrestler would have done a better job keeping him down. Its all about the focus.

    Judo- Mixed bag because the teachers vary widely in focus. In an Olympic style school you are likely to get up to 90% standing with 10% ground work. In other schools you might find a 50/50 focus on each range. Karo is a prime Judo example in MMA.

    V
     
  12. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    Knox, you would consider Coleman more of a folkstyle than freestyle guy?

    Also I feel you're focusing more on takedown and control, when this guy is more interested with staying on his feet.
     
  13. RacerX

    RacerX Orange Belt

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    Go train with Gokor and Gene Lebell. Barring that, given the new Judo rules, train Sambo if you can find it. I think Judo is great, but if you only want to train one grappling art for takedown defense Sambo is better now.
     
  14. Carrera26

    Carrera26 Orange Belt

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    As if we magically forgot all of our leg-grab training as soon as the rules changed... The IJF may be powerful and somewhat evil in some regards, but they haven't perfected the mass mind-wipe just yet!

    It really does depend if you are going to be competing in a Gi / clothes or not. They are very different worlds. More cross-over than people think, I can use my Judo just fine without the gi, thank you very much, but I certainly won't be as effective as a wrestler in that situation and vice versa.
     
  15. hughes fan

    hughes fan Silver Belt

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    A lot of styles work on TDD even if it's not at the forefront. There are TMAs that actually use it but there are a couple of different styles of TDD mainly and obviously the whole cage TDD thing is probably where wrestling goes further.
     
  16. RacerX

    RacerX Orange Belt

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    Old school people haven't forgotten, but new guys aren't going to learn shot/ankle pick defense like they would have in the past.
     
  17. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    they really didn't in the past either IMO, , sure you would have counters and so on but the pure stay on your feet defend thing is best learned in wrestling (at least for a thaiboxer looking to just stay on his feet)

    defense in judo is much more offensive then in wrestling
     
  18. GotDaWork

    GotDaWork White Belt

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    lol BJJ would wreck tkd son
     
  19. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    As people mentioned, the choice its more of what its actually available than anything.

    My first impression would say train judo, because its the sport where you can be thrown more easily, when you can be thrown easily you tend to develop stronger countermeasures.

    Another thing to point out, is that freestyle and folkstyle stance, really don't translate well into striking, if you want to complement striking, you are better off with judo or greco.

    folkstyle and judo wil develop a strong ability to scramble and get up, judo is declining though and most people prefer stalling now, i was teached under the 80s-90s mentality where when you wanted to avoid newaza you had to stand up.

    judo will also teach the basics of submissions and positional grappling, finding good judo newaza schools its hard.

    Judo its very broad and less standarized, you can find judo clubs that are more like recreational activities, judo with no newaza, etc etc, wrestling is usually the same everywhere its a combat sport with competition mentality.

    Sambo i don't talk about because its hard to find good sambo in america, but its a lot like judo.

    If you are living on America, i would go with wrestling, unless you find a very competitive judo school whose students also train BJJ, that's the only way you are going to get complete judo in America.

    Although there is a poster here who talks about a judo school by Israel Hernandez, he is a great cuban competitor from the 90s, im pretty sure his newaza must be very good.
     
  20. The Disciple**

    The Disciple** Banned Banned

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    if your considering bjj for takedwon defense than you have not grappled before. if you want tdd its wrestling. there are different types of wrestling but i would go with freestyle.
     

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