Best P4P MMA Wrestler Of All Time

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Bmartin89, Jan 10, 2015.

  1. Got GOAT

    Got GOAT Banned Banned

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    It depends on what you value most in a fighter/wrestler:

    Top Control, Scrambling, Chain-Wrestling, Takedown Accuracy, Takedown Variety/Diversity (clinch & distance), Positional Advancement, and Takedown Defense (clinch & distance).

    Technically, GSP is the best 'MMA wrestler' of all time. He owns records to this day, some of which I don't see being broken anytime soon. He has the UFC records for:

    - Most Takedowns Landed
    - Highest Takedown Accuracy
    - Most Guard Passes

    *He is also Top 3 for his Takedown Defense/TDD

    He has the quickest level change and shot of any fighter I've ever seen in MMA, and because of this, he gets most of his takedowns from the distance and not from the clinch. He covers so much distance so quickly (and safely) that it's amazing to watch. His power/blast double leg TD is amazing because of it, along with his precise timing and the setups that he uses just prior to shooting. He's also really good with the single leg TD and other variations, so he didn't just have a monster double. He is the king of the double leg in the history of MMA, much like Jordan Burroughs is the modern day king of the double leg in [Freestyle] wrestling. They've met before and Burroughs (Olympic Freestyle gold medalist) even did a Freestyle wrestling seminar at GSP's local gym, Tristar.

    St-Pierre also has good clinch-based TDs, such as the hip toss that he used to throw Hughes onto his back before he armbarred him. And before people start saying that that's a Judo throw, it's also a Freestyle (and American Folkstyle) wrestling takedown. He has other clinch TDs, but that's probably the most well-known of them as far as examples go. So, he does have a variety of takedowns both on the inside and from the distance (outside).

    In this animated GIF he hits a double leg on Thiago Alves from literally outside of kicking range. He feints his jab to set it up before he shoots in and Thiago slips what never came, which is some beautiful shit.

    [​IMG]

    Look at how much distance he covers and how quickly it happens. This is my favorite takedown from GSP and it even shocks some of the fans (check out the woman in the crowd that puts her hands up to her face). He hit this lightning fast beautiful double after he'd already been fighting for over 15 minutes. That's how fast he used to be able to shoot in before he tore his ACL (and then tore his other ACL). He never wrestled prior to getting into MMA which makes it even more amazing. In the double leg he gets in the above GIF from just outside of kicking range, he shoots from twice as far out as a wrestler would typically shoot in a wrestling match, which is usually inside clinch/tie-up range or just outside of it. Think about that and it becomes even more impressive.

    GSP isn't the best chain-wrestler, scrambler or top control guy in MMA, but, his takedown accuracy often makes up for not having really well developed chain-wrestling, considering he doesn't need to chain one TD attempt to another usually since he gets the first one to begin with (but he has shown some chain-wrestling). His takedown accuracy also allows him to let his opponent scramble back up from the bottom to their feet where he'll then just put them on their back again (and score more points for the additional takedown), so top control and scrambling weren't real pivotal in his offensive wrestling game either. Defensively he's good at getting back to his feet and scrambles well in that scenario, as well as stuffing a TD attempt and winning an ensuing scramble by escaping or reversing the attempt.

    Some examples of GSP's Takedown Defense against credentialed wrestlers, Koscheck & Trigg (KOS is a 4x NCAA Division-I All-American & national champion; Trigg is a 4x USA Wrestling All-American, NCAA Division-I wrestler & 2000 Olympic trials finalist):

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
  2. FlyingKimurabar

    FlyingKimurabar Silver Belt

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    So has Jones.

    It's between them. It's close.
     
  3. Uber KO

    Uber KO vBookie Welfare Belt Platinum Member

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    The Don Frye or Dan Severn.
     
  4. Adamant

    Adamant GOLD BELT

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    GSP actually outwrestled them. Jones just used his extreme physical advantage to power them down. Big difference.
     
  5. FlyingKimurabar

    FlyingKimurabar Silver Belt

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    Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. GSP was far and away the best athlete at 170. Miles above, and mainly just used like 2-3 different type of takedowns, with the power double being his most common by far.

    I'd say the person who uses the actual most wrestling technique is The Chris. I don't know if I've ever seen him hit the same takedown twice. Pretty fascinating really.
     
  6. Steve08

    Steve08 American Fedor Belt

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    Yeah pretty much. His actual ground game was informed primarily by jiu-jitsu to anyone who really watches. It's funny how so many people attribute top control to wrestling when top control is actually where the true strength of BJJ lies. GSP basically just got really good at a few wrestling takedowns; his overall wrestling skill-set was not amazingly diverse. I mean, he got switched by Condit.
     
  7. pick999

    pick999 Silver Belt

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    jones and its not even close
     
  8. JWtheKarateKid

    JWtheKarateKid Orange Belt

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    GSP, although the best wrestler to ever enter the octagon has to be mark schultz? right?
     
  9. TheVenom

    TheVenom Black Belt

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    GSP, without question.

    Jones is getting there. Him not only stopping Cormier's takedowns is impressive but Jones spent most of the fight clinched with DC. That speaks volumes. Played into what many of us thought would be a disadvantage. Proved everyone wrong.
     
  10. Inverse

    Inverse Ginger Belt Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    People would have said Cormier before Jones beat him.
    Jon Jones is the best MMA wreslter.

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    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015

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