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Rhaegar beat both in jousting tourneys its never said he is on a par with them in combat.
Best Fighter in GOT Tournament | Bronze | 3) Jaime Lannister vs 4) Robert Baratheon
- Thread starter Lethal
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Rhaegar beat both in jousting tourneys its never said he is on a par with them in combat.
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Yeah. Selmy pretty much says rhaegar was quality but not elite. Yet Rhaegar was able to wound Robert serious enough to keep him from makimg the trip to Kings Landing.
Jaime is elite.
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After Robert had to crush who knows how many heads just to get to a fresh Rhaegar.
Jamie is elite. Robert is elite and has insane physical gifts and a weapon made to damage armored combatants.
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Yes when Danaerys asks Barry about him being peerless Barry describes him as puissant.
An interesting choice of word meaning powerful from the french 'to be able'. Thats how Rhaegars described very 'able'. He was very good at what he set he his mind to. GRRM chose that word on purpose.
The only person I can remember saying Rhaegar was best of the best is Cersei in a rant about Loras. I'll take Barristans opinion over hers.
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If Jaime took a risk and didn't wear armor like
I might give him odds. As fast as he is, Plate mail turns everything into a mud fight so it's not like he's gonna go Muhammad Ali on his ass. And good luck parrying a 10 pound, 4 foot long warhammer weighted at the end with some 3 pound longsword with its weight pretty evenly distributed. Considering the difference in strength, they might even be at similar speed when fully armored, with Robert having an advantage in stamina.
If he tries to fight on the outside, his slashes aren't likely to get through the armor and I think he eventually eats a hammer due to the plate making him lag.
If he commits to a thrust, he's now in Robert's range and has to deal with his physicality. Jaime is strong, but Robert is stronger and could even just wrestle him down and go "Fleabottom Style" on his ass like Brienne. If Jaime does get a good thrust, Robert is still quite capable of killing him with an afterblow, like he did that boar, drunk as fuck might I add. By comparison, what did Jaime do when his hand got cut off? Robert has the better reaction to getting his shit fucked up.
It's just a shitty matchup for the kingslayer.
Oberyn against the Mountain
I might give him odds. As fast as he is, Plate mail turns everything into a mud fight so it's not like he's gonna go Muhammad Ali on his ass. And good luck parrying a 10 pound, 4 foot long warhammer weighted at the end with some 3 pound longsword with its weight pretty evenly distributed. Considering the difference in strength, they might even be at similar speed when fully armored, with Robert having an advantage in stamina.
If he tries to fight on the outside, his slashes aren't likely to get through the armor and I think he eventually eats a hammer due to the plate making him lag.
If he commits to a thrust, he's now in Robert's range and has to deal with his physicality. Jaime is strong, but Robert is stronger and could even just wrestle him down and go "Fleabottom Style" on his ass like Brienne. If Jaime does get a good thrust, Robert is still quite capable of killing him with an afterblow, like he did that boar, drunk as fuck might I add. By comparison, what did Jaime do when his hand got cut off? Robert has the better reaction to getting his shit fucked up.
It's just a shitty matchup for the kingslayer.
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Jaime is pjysically gifted as well. People underrate his physicality. Hes still amonst the strongest in the kingdom.
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I think something that fantasy novels lead us to believe is that swords are these awesome weapons, but based on some things I've been watching lately, swords were basically like the pistols of medieval times. You couldn't just stroll into town with your halberd or poleaxe, you had to check that sort of stuff in with your innkeep during your stay. However, you could walk around with a sword in cities. It was a common dueling weapon for that reason, but not really the preferred weapon of the battlefield. If anything, a spear seems to beat a sword pretty handily.
I guess being a skilled swordsman doesn't mean as much to me when dealing with a guy in full plate mail using a weapon better designed to fight people in plate mail.
I guess being a skilled swordsman doesn't mean as much to me when dealing with a guy in full plate mail using a weapon better designed to fight people in plate mail.
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Both fights are close.
First scenario is very close. I dunno.
Second scenario goes purely how long Jamie can survive for. At this point Robert would have the gas tank of a 3 minute wonder. I would whoop Jamie ass for those 3 minutes, but if he couldn't stop Jamie he would become a sitting duck. Jamie with no arms could probably kick Robert to death by the championship rounds if it went that long(and it could if Robert gases and Jamie sucks enough at southpaw that he still could't get the kill)
First scenario is very close. I dunno.
Second scenario goes purely how long Jamie can survive for. At this point Robert would have the gas tank of a 3 minute wonder. I would whoop Jamie ass for those 3 minutes, but if he couldn't stop Jamie he would become a sitting duck. Jamie with no arms could probably kick Robert to death by the championship rounds if it went that long(and it could if Robert gases and Jamie sucks enough at southpaw that he still could't get the kill)
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How do we know Rhaegar was fresh and Robert wasn't?
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Rhaegar just finished wiping his tears after writing a poem.
Robert just finished wiping his junk after fucking a barmaid.
platfox
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"Old" Vitor
Gods know what he was on.
Holy shit @ dat pic, lol. Its like a head mounted on a mountain of muscles.
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Looks like Palhares.
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I'll take Robert in both. Even as a fat old man, he's still 6'6" and powerful swinging a giant warhammer. Jaime is more skilled but a much smaller man than a prime Robert Baratheon.
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Rhaegar was the Prince. He had the Kingsguard and probably a dozen other peeps around him. Darry, Selmy and Martell had to be taken out of the picture for him and Robert to fight one-on-one.
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And Robert was the figurehead/leader of the rebellion.
Lewyn was commanding the Dornishmen on the flank. Its possible Rhaegar gave the Kingsguard command of different parts of his forces (speculation except in Lewyns case).
Wouldn't the other KG being taken out support Rhaegar participating? Because if Rhaegars not in danger why involve themselves?
Robert would have also had his supporters around him.
Robert and Rhaegar met in single combat. Neither had any reluctance to fight the other.
That one was fresh and the other wasn't is pure speculation.
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Robert always led the vanguard in his battles. He commanded from the front, which was atypical.
A rebellion is not a monarchy; if he dies, it doesn't matter. He became the figurehead of the rebellion because he was a beast on the battlefield. It wasn't some assigned position. There's no reports of him having any special guard. Even Ned wasn't by his side in battle.
Rhaegar was with Selmy and Darry, commanding. They only got involved because Rhaegar was seeking out Robert. They guarded him from combat until they were taken out of the picture. Historically, commanders always had a retinue of knights. They met in single combat because the only knights that Rhaegar couldn't tell to stand aside, Selmy and Darry, were out of the picture by then.
It may be speculation, but it's pretty reasonable speculation.
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Yet Jon Conn believed killing Robert would finish the rebellion. Aerys saw Robert was the greatest threat since the Blackfyres.
It would be naive to assume Robert didn't have his own retinue watching his back during the battle as well. Like Robb Stark had. Robert inspired loyalty.
We have no way of knowing if Darry and Barristan were with Rhaegar its a very reasonable speculation at least 1 was though.
We have no way of knowing how fresh either was at the point they met. Rhaegar could have commanded Darry or Selmy to step aside if it came to it.
The book says they came together at the Ruby Ford. Its just as possible Rhaegar was fighting to get to Robert as Robert to get to him.
Again speculation and I don't see either as any more likely than the other.
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The bolded part is so wrong I had trouble even finishing the rest of your post. It is absolutely true that Robert killed Rheagar in solo combat, just to get on the same page. However, to say that he was on the same level as Dayne and Selmy is completely wrong. No where is that said and if you actually think that then you should reread the books because gods know what else you may have totally missed. Rhaegar by all accounts was a good swordsman and an excellent rider. Dayne was by all accounts an excellent swordsman and a good perhaps even great rider. What Rheagar accomplished in the lists is by no means an indication of what sort of fighter he was.
Also you mention Robert winning the rebellion as evidence of his greatness. Although i agree, to claim that shows his superiority to the other characters you mentioned is being shortsighted. Robert had 4 regions supporting him (Stormlands, Riverlands, Vale and the North) the next closest was Robb who had half as many.
He definitely did out fight Connington, who seems like a capable fighter himself. No arguments there.
I appreciate your passion for Robert, Nameless but you didnt even address my point that Jaime would win with both in there primes.
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Barristan also describes Robert as a great knight and commander.
Robert > Jaime, in commanding, battle, and toughness. I favor him probably 60-40 over Jaime in a 1 on 1 as well, maybe 55-45. Either way, it's close.
Fat Robert destroys 1 handed Jaime though, and it's not close.
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I agree. Thats almost exactly how I see it.
However in got Robert is sweating and wheezing just walking to the winterfell crypts.
Jaime currently is terrible with his left and I think even fat Robert would bowl him over.
Jaime one hand if he gets good with his left will kill Robert who can't handle a flight of steps. He still has footwork and cardio, fat robert can barely climb stairs he's 8 stone overweight and 15 years of drunk feasts. Thats if Jaime gets better, he is but well wait and see.
