Bernie Sanders still beating Hillary Clinton in New Hampshire, says new poll.

[speakhandsforme]

Liberal wet blankets always chiming in with "he'll NEVER WIN, though!" are the worst.

If he is even competitive, it's a huge statement, given the circumstances.

 

[Sunni and Shia]

Liberal wet blankets always chiming in with "he'll NEVER WIN, though!" are the worst.

If he is even competitive, it's a huge statement, given the circumstances.

Utterly the worst.

 

[Satanical Eve]

Just remember folks in 2008, nobody thought Obama would even beat Hillary. Her campaign didn't take him that seriously and we all know how that turned out. I hope the same happens to her with Bernie

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

I really, really hate that saying shit like "going to the hospital shouldn't plunge you into bankruptcy" and "everyone who works full time should be able to afford to live" is considered "extreme" in this country.

Well those are statements I like but his stance on the banks, reforms, corporations, taxes are too far left and extreme. They would destroy the nation. A guy like Joe Biden could give us sensible reforms (continuing and building on what Obama and Dems did) and a guy like Biden or a woman like Hillary could also give us sensible approach to corporations and the banks.

Just remember folks in 2008, nobody thought Obama would even beat Hillary. Her campaign didn't take him that seriously and we all know how that turned out. I hope the same happens to her with Bernie

Look back. Obama did well in the polls way far back and had many solid backers within the party.

 

[theBLADE1]

Well those are statements I like but his stance on the banks, reforms, corporations, taxes are too far left and extreme. They would destroy the nation. A guy like Joe Biden could give us sensible reforms (continuing and building on what Obama and Dems did) and a guy like Biden or a woman like Hillary could also give us sensible approach to corporations and the banks.




Look back. Obama did well in the polls way far back and had many solid backers within the party.

How would they destroy our nation? You have yet to say how it would actually do that. Why is it extreme to make the most financially successful businesses in the world pay more taxes to help fund things that every day Americans need? They are still going to be billionaires when it's all said and done

 

[Islam Imamate]

Liberal wet blankets always chiming in with "he'll NEVER WIN, though!" are the worst.

If he is even competitive, it's a huge statement, given the circumstances.

Even if he doesn't win, if he can pull enough votes and attention from Hillary's campaign that could make her move further left to reabsorb those lost votes.

 

[theBLADE1]

Even if he doesn't win, if he can pull enough votes and attention from Hillary's campaign that could make her move further left to reabsorb those lost votes.

But even if she did it doesn't mean she would remain true to her word. The only way we enact Bernie's policies is to actually get him elected. And it's becoming more and more plausible every day. Hell some time in October there planning a 100,000 people rally in Washington DC for Bernie!

 

[Possum Jenkins]

There's really no good reason to think Bernie can't take the whole thing. There are reasons to think it'd be challenging for him, but to say that he hasn't got a chance has no basis in reality. YOU'RE the deluded one if you honestly believe that. This "he has no chance" schtick can be a powerful self-fulfilling prophecy for those invested in keeping him out of the running, but the numbers are already telling us that it isn't getting the mileage they were hoping for.

According to this feature, he's been gaining about 3-4% points every month since around March.

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-democratic-primary

He's in the low-mid 20s right now. I think he needs to get in the high 30s to win. He needs to keep this pace up to reach that figure by the time of the first primaries.

Hillary will continue her freefall and Biden entering the race will take more votes away from her.

The most realistic scenario for him would be something like

Bernie- 38%
Hillary- 35%
Biden- 20%

 

[speakhandsforme]

Even if he doesn't win, if he can pull enough votes and attention from Hillary's campaign that could make her move further left to reabsorb those lost votes.

I don't think that will actually come into play at all, at least in issues of importance. What it may do, however, is attract independents and single-issue voters to the economic left and towards a focus on bigger issues. It may slowly bring America closer to the rest of the industrialized world.

 

[Trollgrappler]

Even if he doesn't win, if he can pull enough votes and attention from Hillary's campaign that could make her move further left to reabsorb those lost votes.

What does this even mean? Move further left, like in her speeches? Hillary is who she is so regardless of where you think she is "moving" trust me she isn't. She is a phony through and through she is even a pretty huge phony by politicians standards.

I think Bernie would be a disaster but that is because I am not a socialist retard, that said he is consistent and has been for years, that shows integrity and I like that. So this idea that even if he doesn't win it will change Hillary, it will only alter her speeches. When she gets in she will still be the the same old Hillary if you like that then fine but don't kid yourself into thinking she will "move further left."

 

[Anung Un Rama]

According to this feature, he's been gaining about 3-4% points every month since around March.

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-democratic-primary

He's in the low-mid 20s right now. I think he needs to get in the high 30s to win. He needs to keep this pace up to reach that figure by the time of the first primaries.

Hillary will continue her freefall and Biden entering the race will take more votes away from her.

The most realistic scenario for him would be something like

Bernie- 38%
Hillary- 35%
Biden- 20%

My fear is that Biden would take votes away from both, thereby mortally wounding Bernie's campaign. And the irony would be that these folks who leave Bernie are doing so because they think Biden is different than Hillary. While I'm sure he's more honest than Clinton, they're in lockstep policy-wise.

What does this even mean? Move further left, like in her speeches? Hillary is who she is so regardless of where you think she is "moving" trust me she isn't. She is a phony through and through she is even a pretty huge phony by politicians standards.

I think Bernie would be a disaster but that is because I am not a socialist retard, that said he is consistent and has been for years, that shows integrity and I like that. So this idea that even if he doesn't win it will change Hillary, it will only alter her speeches. When she gets in she will still be the the same old Hillary if you like that then fine but don't kid yourself into thinking she will "move further left."

Hey TG! Good to see you posting. And you nailed it. Even if she wasn't a notorious phony, to think that a politician's rhetoric on the campaign trail is legitimate if the record isn't there is disturbing. I blame the MSM for planting this idea when they noticed Bernie would be a factor. The sheep just ran with it.

edit: That being said, I don't think of A Psyche Major as a "sheep", he may not have thought it thru.

 

[speakhandsforme]

Biden's biggest threat to Bernie comes in the way of possibly redirecting campaign donations, which affects Sanders to a greater degree than either Biden or Clinton. But I don't think his impact in the polls would be only minimally more detrimental to Sanders, because of the small, but considerable, portion of his voters who are just anti-Clinton Democrats.

 

[Son of Werdum]

Agreed, neither Sanders nor Trump will get the nomination.

Therefore, they will run independent under a Sanders/Trump ticket. Effectively ruining the election for both sides

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

How would they destroy our nation? You have yet to say how it would actually do that. Why is it extreme to make the most financially successful businesses in the world pay more taxes to help fund things that every day Americans need? They are still going to be billionaires when it's all said and done

Because he is too far left. He will push business out, and push many intellectual elites/financial elites out of the country. His policies may also destroy the ability for people to own small businesses. Furthermore, he is a borderline conspiracy theorist and believes that corporations are a magical 'boogie man' who is out to get people. Which is absurd considering that most corporations are public entities that employ people.

There are much more logical/reasonable candidates out there who propose SENSIBLE approaches towards taxation and reduce corporate power that the 1% ruling class has.


Joe Biden may be that man and Hillary could be that woman.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

My fear is that Biden would take votes away from both, thereby mortally wounding Bernie's campaign. And the irony would be that these folks who leave Bernie are doing so because they think Biden is different than Hillary. While I'm sure he's more honest than Clinton, they're in lockstep policy-wise.

Mmmm, I don't know. I don't think a lot of people see Biden as a more moderate version of Bernie. Most know he's in the Hillary/Bill mold and is seen even more center than Obama.

I guess some are anti-Hillary and Bernie's too extreme so they'll go with Biden, but I don't think there's that many. I think a more likely scenario is that Bernie simply won't have the funds to compete and will be unable to get his name out there, causing him to get stuck in the high 20s.

Plus, the backlash against his policies hasn't yet started. If Obama was branded as "dangerous" because he so left he'd scare business away, Bernie will be the anti-Christ.

 

[theBLADE1]

Because he is too far left. He will push business out, and push many intellectual elites/financial elites out of the country. His policies may also destroy the ability for people to own small businesses. Furthermore, he is a borderline conspiracy theorist and believes that corporations are a magical 'boogie man' who is out to get people. Which is absurd considering that most corporations are public entities that employ people.

There are much more logical/reasonable candidates out there who propose SENSIBLE approaches towards taxation and reduce corporate power that the 1% ruling class has.


Joe Biden may be that man and Hillary could be that woman.

Everything you say is based on speculation and fear. No companies are going to leave. It will have absolutely no effect on small business and will in fact help them in the long run. Taxing Wall Street speculation will not do anything to hurt small businesses and there is too much money to be had here in America for the intellectual/financial elites to just up and leave this country. It's not like China or Russia would welcome them with open arms.

And yes major companies do employ people but they pay them pennies and keep all the wealth for themselves. that's not okay and Bernie Sanders is the only candidate who is willing to do something about it and is courageously targeting every industrial complex we have in America today. From the prison industrial complex to the military-industrial complex he understands what is ailing our country and will stop at nothing to fix it. Of course people are going to be scared and afraid of change, but over the long run people will see it for the better.

 

[Jack V Savage]

And yes major companies do employ people but they pay them pennies and keep all the wealth for themselves. that's not okay and Bernie Sanders is the only candidate who is willing to do something about it and is courageously targeting every industrial complex we have in America today. From the prison industrial complex to the military-industrial complex he understands what is ailing our country and will stop at nothing to fix it. Of course people are going to be scared and afraid of change, but over the long run people will see it for the better.

Stirring stuff, man.

I think "too far left" is silly. But, like, look at the MW. Right-wingers always respond to people saying "it should be a little bit higher than it currently is" with "why not make it a billion dollars an hour, then? Heh-heh." That's stupid because there's no evidence that a small increase would cause any problems, but a big increase could. $15/hr works fine in a rich city, but nationwide, that would cause a lot of unemployment for low-skill workers (that's especially in places with the weakest safety nets). So ideologically, there's nothing wrong with the plan--I think most people would like to see the poorest workers get an increase in their pay--but practically, it's not a good idea. Same thing with some of his plans for banking regs. It's not that there's anything wrong with the goals (so it's not an ideological issue), but he doesn't have a smart plan for attaining those goals.

If he wants to go hard left and expose people to ideas even if they don't have a great chance of happening right now, I think he should talk about national property taxes, shifting tax burdens from labor to capital, SS for children, aggressively targeting full employment--things like that. Where he's been going has been simultaneously too radical and not radical enough (not fundamentally changing the shape of our distributive institutions but making big changes along current lines that could have large negative impacts).

So, you know, I think Bernie is a really good guy (he attracts some awful followers, though), but I don't think he's ready for the big stage.

 

[Better Every Day]

Well those are statements I like but his stance on the banks, reforms, corporations, taxes are too far left and extreme. They would destroy the nation.

Why would such taxes destroy the country? We've had similar taxes before and it didn't destroy the country:

Following World War II tax increases, top marginal individual tax rates stayed near or above 90%, and the effective tax rate at 70% for the highest incomes (few paid the top rate), until 1964 when the top marginal tax rate was lowered to 70%. Kennedy explicitly called for a top rate of 65 percent, but added that it should be set at 70 percent if certain deductions weren't phased out at the top of the income scale

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_history_of_the_United_States

And the way that Bernie would use such taxes should be much better for the middle class and lower income people, which would boost the American economy by increasing the ability of a broader array of Americans to be larger consumers of goods and services.

Bernie's so-called socialism would actually make for better U.S. capitalism, as our current system sequesters too much wealth among too few people (i.e. the wealthiest) thereby weakening consumer demand.

 

[speakhandsforme]

Stirring stuff, man.

I think "too far left" is silly. But, like, look at the MW. Right-wingers always respond to people saying "it should be a little bit higher than it currently is" with "why not make it a billion dollars an hour, then? Heh-heh." There's no evidence that a small increase would cause any problems. And $15/hr works fine in a rich city. But nationwide, that would cause a lot of unemployment for low-skill workers (that's especially in places with the weakest safety nets). So ideologically, there's nothing wrong with the plan--I think most people would like to see the poorest workers get an increase in their pay--but practically, it's not a good idea. Same thing with some of his plans for banking regs. It's not that there's anything wrong with the goals (so it's not an ideological issue), but he doesn't have a smart plan for attaining those goals.

If he wants to go hard left and expose people to ideas even if they don't have a great chance of happening right now, I think he should talk about national property taxes, shifting tax burdens from labor to capital, SS for children, aggressively targeting full employment--things like that. Where he's been going has been simultaneously too radical and not radical enough (not fundamentally changing the shape of our distributive institutions but making big changes along current lines that could have large negative impacts).

So, you know, I think Bernie is a really good guy (he attracts some awful followers, though), but I don't think he's ready for the big stage.

Good post.

I don't get your fixation on Sanders having any worse supporters than any other candidate, though.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Good post.

I don't get your fixation on Sanders having any worse supporters than any other candidate, though.

I kind of left a thought dangling. Fixed that after reading your quote. Thanks, though.

And it's just what I see. People responding to friendly criticism of their guy with attacks on people's character (not just intelligence).