Bernie and the Economy

[Deleted member 159002]

There wouldn't be.

Then you can abandon your argument from treating debt in a consistent fashion for student debt cancellation.

 

[panamaican]

Then you can abandon your argument from treating debt in a consistent fashion for student debt cancellation.

Why would I abandon an argument that I never made. My argument is they should be treated equally but since they're not, I don't see any reason against granting them a special form of debt forgiveness.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

These borrowers weren't given any of that, when they take time to look for a job - the unpaid interest capitalizes, plus they were stripped of the same easy access to debt relief mechanisms that other debtors. They should receive additional punishment on top of that - why? Are we sadists and nobody told me?

Wanting people who made investments in themselves to get ahead of me (and millions of other people) to not have their advantages increased by the government doesn't make someone a sadist. That's ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Why would I abandon an argument that I never made. My argument is they should be treated equally but since they're not, I don't see any reason against granting them a special form of debt forgiveness.

Has your argument for student debt cancellation not been that you want all debt treated according to the same principle(s), and that this cannot be done unless the government cancels student debt?

 

[panamaican]

Wanting people who made investments in themselves to get ahead of me (and millions of other people) to not have their advantages increased by the government doesn't make someone a sadist. That's ridiculous.

This is where I frequently ask about things like mortgage interest deductions and business deductions, which are people who made investments in themselves having their advantages increased by the government. We have no problem increasing those advantages (well, I do but I appear to be in the minority on that) but if the advantage being sought was an education then it becomes a problem.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

This is where I frequently ask about things like mortgage interest deductions and business deductions, which are people who made investments in themselves having their advantages increased by the government. We have no problem increasing those advantages (well, I do but I appear to be in the minority on that) but if the advantage being sought was an education then it becomes a problem.

So ask about them. I'd be fine with eliminating the mortgage interest deduction, and I think businesses should only get deductions for things that people should be doing -- like using solar energy.

 

[panamaican]

Has your argument for student debt cancellation not been that you want all debt treated according to the same principle(s), and that this cannot be done unless the government cancels student debt?

No, that has not been my argument. It is neither my primary nor my secondary argument.

My secondary argument is that all debt should be treated the same. However, it is not., student loan debt is treated differently. Because it is not, student loan debt forgiveness doesn't need to be assessed as if it is the same as other debt.

That is an extension of my primary argument which is that cancelling student loan debt is good for the economy. When people counter that with arguments about not forgiving debt, I attach the secondary argument for why that line of reasoning is flawed.

 

[rob mafia]

There wouldn't be. I think student debt cancellation is a good idea specifically

holy shit.

 

[panamaican]

So ask about them. I'd be fine with eliminating the mortgage interest deduction, and I think businesses should only get deductions for things that people should be doing -- like using solar energy.

Why, I already explained where I'm going with that argument. I use the types of government advantages to illustrate that we're already using the government to advance people's choices to invest in something that ostensibly only benefits themselves. Hence the idea of applying the same principle to student loan debt is not a divergence from our current practices. If people can take their mortgage interest deductions every tax year and not scream bloody murder about how their ripping off their fellow man, they can pipe down about unfair debt advantages when it comes to other people.

 

[panamaican]

holy shit.

Why? I said this to you pages ago. I stated why pages ago.

 

[rob mafia]

Why? I said this to you pages ago. I stated why pages ago.

no, you refused to say you were for/against it and danced around it while double talking... at least, after i pointed out the hypocrisy in favoring student loan forgiveness while criticizing other debt "personal enrichment."

ie:

No, I didn't skip any of it, I responded with my opinion, I didn't argue with yours. And there's no hypocrisy - I explained the position. I dislike the mortgage interest deduction for the reasons stated but if we're going to do this thing with handing out money to people for personal enrichment that I disagree with then there's no reason to exclude students, who path of personal enrichment benefits society at large fiscally.

I don't want to do X but if we're going to do X then we should do it properly.

lolz @ this thread being supposedly about the economy when it's apparently only about student loans - which has less impact than pretty much every other part of bernie's economic platform (forced communism/dilution of all publicly traded companies by 20%, universal healthcare, etc).

ie: https://forums.sherdog.com/posts/158474799/ - which was loaded with economic impact and quotes from bernie's own site.

 

[panamaican]

no, you refused to say you were for/against it and danced around it while double talking... at least, after i pointed out the hypocrisy in favoring student loan forgiveness while criticizing other debt "personal enrichment."

ie:




lolz @ this thread being supposedly about the economy when it's apparently only about student loans - which has less impact than pretty much every other part of bernie's economic platform (forced communism/dilution of all publicly traded companies by 20%, universal healthcare, etc).

ie: https://forums.sherdog.com/posts/158474799/ - which was loaded with economic impact and quotes from bernie's own site.

I explicitly answered that question from my 2nd post response to you and never deviated from what I said there. There was no double talk. There was a complete nuanced answer. Maybe you just didn't read it.

And in an earlier post, I addressed student loans, free college and universal healthcare. I've commented on all 3 aspects.

 

[rob mafia]

I explicitly answered that question from my 2nd post response to you and never deviated from what I said there. There was no double talk. There was a complete nuanced answer. Maybe you just didn't read it.

And in an earlier post, I addressed student loans, free college and universal healthcare. I've commented on all 3 aspects.

posts 61-68 say otherwise. and you know this. in the end, it was 'if, if, it doesn't exist.'

i never said you didn't comment on it. no idea what you mean by "all 3 aspects," though. i thought this thread was supposed to be about the economy.

lolz @ 20% dilution of all publicly traded companies being overlooked by everyone... as well as the gay/minority "reporting"/registry.

 

[rob mafia]

Has your argument for student debt cancellation not been that you want all debt treated according to the same principle(s), and that this cannot be done unless the government cancels student debt?

he's against all forms of debt for personal enrichment, duh. therefore, we should have yet another form of it, instead of eliminating them all. i mean, duh. it's opposite day.

 

[panamaican]

posts 61-68 say otherwise. and you know this. in the end, it was 'if, if, it doesn't exist.'

i never said you didn't comment on it. no idea what you mean by "all 3 aspects," though. i thought this thread was supposed to be about the economy.

lolz @ 20% dilution of all publicly traded companies being overlooked by everyone... as well as the gay/minority "reporting"/registry.

Posts 45-60 say otherwise. Like I said - looks like you didn't read.

 

[rob mafia]

Posts 45-60 say otherwise. Like I said - looks like you didn't read.

...posts 45-60 are exactly why i pointed out the hypocrisy of the double-speak. and then had to ask you directly:

...so you're against student loan forgiveness, then? you seem to be speaking out of both sides of your keyboard.

which you then continued to double-speak and nonanswer.

hence, the below post (68):

I answered directly with explanation. I care about student loan forgiveness as it applies to the economy and to debt law. Hence my answer about if I support student loan forgiveness is based on those 2 things. If we eliminated debt bankruptcy or other types of debt benefits then my opinion on student loan forgiveness would change to ensure consistency across the law.

It's not a moral issue for me, as it appears to be for you. It's a consistency issue. You have a moral issue about student loan forgiveness, I don't. I want it treated in a fashion consistent with how we treat other debt, I don't think that's part of your calculations. So, if you're looking a simplistic answer from me that's about the rights/wrongs of student debt forgiveness, it doesn't exist because my position is based on more than just student loans.

...i asked you a yes/no question. the above horseshit was your "answer." it clashes greatly with posts previous to ~60 (hence, hypocrisy comment) and is blatantly contradicted by 78:

I think student debt cancellation is a good idea

ffs, man.

 

[panamaican]

...posts 45-60 are exactly why i pointed out the hypocrisy of the double-speak. and then had to ask you directly:

which you then continued to double-speak and nonanswer.

hence, the below post (68):



...i asked you a yes/no question. the above horseshit was your "answer." it clashes greatly with posts previous to ~60 (hence, hypocrisy comment) and is blatantly contradicted by 78:



ffs, man.

Hence why I find myself supporting student loan forgiveness

Seems insanely straightforward to me. I don't see any double speak. I can't be blamed for assuming that you read things before responding to them.

Should I tell you which post # that's from?

 

[rob mafia]

Seems insanely straightforward to me. I don't see any double speak. I can't be blamed for assuming that you read things before responding to them.

Should I tell you which post # that's from?

'if, if, it doesn't exist.' yes, the new definition of "insanely straightforward" is literally saying "it doesn't exist" amidst multiple paragraphs to a question literally answered by "yes" or "no."

my favorite part is when you claimed to be against them all and then said you think it's a good idea. ffs. "all 3," though. lolwut?

*facepalm*

 

[superpunch]

not only this, but you should look at his website https://berniesanders.com/issues/corporate-accountability-and-democracy/



20% dilution of all publicly traded companies. who the fuck would want to invest in companies knowing that they'll be diluting by 20%?

it's as if bernie wants to help europe/asia at the usa's expense.

Can any Bernie supporters comment on this? He wants to force any company/ corporation with over $100 million in revenue or a $100 million balance sheet, and all publicly traded companies to issue 2% of new stock per year created out of thin air to give to employees until they own 20% of the company?

 

[whougonnacall]

Can any Bernie supporters comment on this? He wants to force any company/ corporation with over $100 million in revenue or a $100 million balance sheet, and all publicly traded companies to issue 2% of new stock per year created out of thin air to give to employees until they own 20% of the company?

The real issue seems to be the employees are tied to the company...if it goes down their future is ashes

https://www.vox.com/2019/5/29/18643032/bernie-sanders-communist-manifesto-employee-ownership-jobs
https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-san...icies-democratic-presidential-primary-1465085
https://theintercept.com/2018/12/26/esop-plans-employee-ownership-bernie-sanders/