Berimbolo - How effective is it ?

Which leads to the next question (again, from someone who only knows the berimbolo from videos); given the number of excellent BJJ competitors who also do MMA, you'd expect them to be eager to try in MMA a technique which, from what I've read in this thread, is so successful in BJJ that the rules had to be changed to discourage it.

That they haven't been trying it in the cage suggests they haven't had success with it in MMA training. Your point that they're capable of other techniques (and so presumably using them) suggests those other techniques are more useful for MMA; what is it about the berimbolo that diminishes it from extremely effective in BJJ to marginally effective in MMA?

Is the ability to grip pants (as opposed to cup/grabbing the leg) that important in the technique?

Ironically enough, this thread has interested me in the technique; next time I'm teaching (obviously throws/takedowns not groundwork) at the BJJ club I'll ask the instructor for a bit of a lesson in it.

I was more talking about DLR sweeping in reality, as I was responding to the guy who suggests he'd just stomp on your torso. I think the berimbolo can work, but is not as suitable a replace in MMA as coming up for a single leg in that situation, for example.

The issue in MMA with it's effectiveness relies on the grips. If you can grab the belt you can forcefully pull someone down to the mat, without that grip you're relying on using a wrist grab and the strength of your DLR hook pulling him down as well as your free leg stamping on the mat.
 
Well said.

Grips change the game completely.

If you could grab pants in MMA, the sport would be very different also.
 
All I know is I can't seem to make it work for me, I have the flexibility to do it and I go inverted all the time but my legs are too short to really have an effective DLR game. Even when I get to the berimbolo position, I just seem to get stuck there and I can't finish the sweep to take the back.

Also, this is more of a scramble than a true berimbolo but I always see it get posted when talking about whether or not it's possible in MMA.

 
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Great video.

The geometry of the technique is valid. Like a play in football, its drawn up to score every time. But how often does it?

Just depends on the user. The Berimbolo, as it's "drawn up", should work every time. Just the user and opponent makes the difference.
 
I think we'll see the Kiss of the Dragon in MMA, berimbolo not so much.
 
I think we'll see the Kiss of the Dragon in MMA, berimbolo not so much.

That's usually what Held does, KotD and Tornado Guard to go for leg locks. It's really not that easy to hit someone who's upside down under you messing with your balance.
 
That's usually what Held does, KotD and Tornado Guard to go for leg locks. It's really not that easy to hit someone who's upside down under you messing with your balance.

Held does a lot of tornado and cross guard, but I haven't seen him hit the true Kiss of the Dragon yet
 
All I know is I can't seem to make it work for me, I have the flexibility to do it and I go inverted all the time but my legs are too short to really have an effective DLR game. Even when I get to the berimbolo position, I just seem to get stuck there and I can't finish the sweep to take the back.

Also, this is more of a scramble than a true berimbolo but I always see it get posted when talking about whether or not it's possible in MMA.



Beat me to it.

Also, no gi it is harder to pull off but you just have to change up a little. I need to make a technique video on how to do it no gi.

If your opponent is kneeling and posts one leg to combat base (lets say you get your left DLR hook), normally you would reach across with your right hand and grab the belt and start the spin, the main difference in nogi is you come up into the spin under and your right arm/hand goes into your opponents left side lat to help force them over (kind of line a close lining movement with your arm)
 
I can berimbolo all day on white's, blue's, some purples, and in the past the browns (one of which is my instructor and is far better than I, but i still had some success for a while) But not so much anymore on the browns and up.

Now, i attribute this to him being more comfortable (ie more experience) in instinctual defense than i do while doing berimbolo. His best is greater than my best. But for any technique to grow, this is an essential process; guy A lands somethign on guy B over and over until guy B begins to figure it out and stifles guy A. Guy A hones his techniques to again get the upper hand, guy B is now, again, stifled, and evolution occurs. Best case scenario, guy A goes against guy C who isn't as well versed in guy A's technique, and has no answer for it.

Its become clear to me that guy B (instructor who is the best BJJ player i know) has an answer for what i thought was a pretty un stoppable technique.

so... in an effort to take my technique to the chopping block, can anyone recommend any new (no older than the beginning of 2015) vids showing 'bolo variations/improvements/tweaks?

A perfectly executed bolo is a thing of beauty; it looks beautiful, it baffles the opponent, and it is (most importantly for a sport competitor) a very effecient way to wind up in an advantageous position, that being 1) back, 2) leg drag, 3) turtle.

Perhaps its the follow up that i dont quite have down yet; i feel like if i dont immediately get back then it turns into a bunch of wasted energy (and morale, more importantly) just to wind up in a scramble.

When yall put your DLR hook in, do u find it more advantageous to put the hook in across the groin or keep it in the leg that your DLR leg is wrapped around? I know Mendes bro's say there's no reason to feed the hook past the groin, but i see the Miyaos and (I think) keenan do it that way.

For those of you who consider yourselfs very good at it, are you happy with anything less than a 1 hook in, guy turtled up, back take, or have you perfected the ensuing scramble? Do you have any tips, other than just sheer force and speed, to follow it up with a good tight leg drag?

Also, im 6'3, 195-200 with a gi on. Lean, almost pure muscle, with long legs. Might i not have the success that Mendes/Miyao have because they are smaller (and of course world class, professional BJJ players... but that goes without saying. "They are pro's and you are not." is not an acceptable answer to me)

I know im asking a lot here, but lets have some established fellow 'bolo lovers weigh in. Lay it on me!
 
Berimbolo is old and busted, worm guard is teh new hotness.
 
lol... ^ in my novella i also meant to ask what the advantage to incorporating the worm guard into bolo is. I mean, i do it as of recent, and like many techniques you *know* that it works, but just dont know why.

Do you find it more advantageous to have the far (or near?) side bottom lapel tail while berin' the ole bolo? ...that is instead of the heel?

SERIOUS REPLIES ONLY NO TROLLING ME! jk, to quote the hodge twins

you can do whatever...

the FFFUUCCKKKK

...you wanna do.
 
That's a half truth, and the important half is missing which is that every good competitor's competition game is limited. The Bishops from Bishop BJJ talked a lot about this on Open Mat Radio (good interview, btw); their insight from doing analysis of many high level matches was that the best competitors have a set game plan which they are extremely expert at implementing. The technical range they use in their matches is extremely limited, because you can only be really really good at so many things. If you want to win competitions and that's why you do BJJ, concentrating on a small subset of moves like berimbolo is the best and fastest way to achieve that goal. If you're going to class as essentially all hobbyists do you'll get a decently well rounded game from that, using your drilling time to focus on the core of your competition game is exactly what you should do.

Basically you can't be great at everything and being really good at the berimbolo is no better or worse than having a mean closed guard from a BJJ competitive standpoint.


I like how Keenan put this in an interview I've heard. It was something like you need one of two things in BJJ and you can win every match. Either an unpassable guard, or an unstoppable take-down/pass. If you have one of those things you can win every match, you might lose on an advantage or decision, but you'll be in it every time.
 
It's not that good if you're only training sport BJJ. It's more of a pure self-defense technique.
Ya I bust it out on the street all the time. Kinda useless in tournaments though. I hear Chuck Liddel had a mean berimbolo back when he fought in the UFC or whatever
 
Ya I bust it out on the street all the time. Kinda useless in tournaments though. I hear Chuck Liddel had a mean berimbolo back when he fought in the UFC or whatever

He should have used it in his first match against Jeremy Horn.
 
When yall put your DLR hook in, do u find it more advantageous to put the hook in across the groin or keep it in the leg that your DLR leg is wrapped around? I know Mendes bro's say there's no reason to feed the hook past the groin, but i see the Miyaos and (I think) keenan do it that way.

For those of you who consider yourselfs very good at it, are you happy with anything less than a 1 hook in, guy turtled up, back take, or have you perfected the ensuing scramble? Do you have any tips, other than just sheer force and speed, to follow it up with a good tight leg drag?

Also, im 6'3, 195-200 with a gi on. Lean, almost pure muscle, with long legs.


I keep a shallow DLR hook and I don't go deep with it across their groin/mid-section. I just feel vulnerable to kneebars and back step passes. I know that a deep DLR works and so I'm missing something, but for now I just like how a more shallow DLR feels. I also find it easier to pull them in with a belt/collar and ankle grip to kick them up in the air or to lift to drop their hips to the mat. It's harder (for me personally) to get the hips to the mat from a deep DLR.

I'm very happy even if I don't get the back with at least one hook. In fact sometimes I prefer to go directly to the leg drag. I really like the side choke/ezekiel chain and the chair sit back attack coming off the drag. Also, I'm better at switching to the twister hook once their hips are on the mat over the "classic" berimbolo. I think that's probably not normal since there are more steps involved. I always try to get the hips to the mat, x-hook to lift them up, switch to the twister hook, and take the back. Or I just take the hips to the mat and go leg drag. I rarely to the day 1/basic berimbolo. Also, a lot of times I actually roll over into the 'bolo off the classic 1 leg X guard sweep. I probably do that just as much as the DLR setup.

I'm 6'1", 180, and I'm also a baby giraffe with long legs like you. For what it's worth.
 
I keep a shallow DLR hook and I don't go deep with it across their groin/mid-section. I just feel vulnerable to kneebars and back step passes. I know that a deep DLR works and so I'm missing something, but for now I just like how a more shallow DLR feels. I also find it easier to pull them in with a belt/collar and ankle grip to kick them up in the air or to lift to drop their hips to the mat. It's harder (for me personally) to get the hips to the mat from a deep DLR.

I'm very happy even if I don't get the back with at least one hook. In fact sometimes I prefer to go directly to the leg drag. I really like the side choke/ezekiel chain and the chair sit back attack coming off the drag. Also, I'm better at switching to the twister hook once their hips are on the mat over the "classic" berimbolo. I think that's probably not normal since there are more steps involved. I always try to get the hips to the mat, x-hook to lift them up, switch to the twister hook, and take the back. Or I just take the hips to the mat and go leg drag. I rarely to the day 1/basic berimbolo. Also, a lot of times I actually roll over into the 'bolo off the classic 1 leg X guard sweep. I probably do that just as much as the DLR setup.

I'm 6'1", 180, and I'm also a baby giraffe with long legs like you. For what it's worth.

wow learn something new every day. Will have to try berimbolo from 1LX.


I don't think it's possible to always take the back from berimbolo. Even Rafa can't do it. Their defense will make it impossible. Against good opponents (purple +) I think Rafa gets the leg drag more often than the back.

My personal preference is for the leg drag, but that's more lack of flexibility than anything else.
 
I rarely get the back, but will often get mount of leg drag for sure. I think the bolo to mount is very under utilized.
 
wow learn something new every day. Will have to try berimbolo from 1LX.


I don't think it's possible to always take the back from berimbolo. Even Rafa can't do it. Their defense will make it impossible. Against good opponents (purple +) I think Rafa gets the leg drag more often than the back.

My personal preference is for the leg drag, but that's more lack of flexibility than anything else.

Since it's technically impossible to get someone's back if it's flush to the floor. So that seems to be a common response to the 'bolo. Just conceding you lost the top and trying to prevent the back take. I'm pretty sure that's how the twister hook stuff came into play.

I wish I had a gif of the berimbolo off the 1 leg x sweep. I mean it's basically a double guard situation, so if you picture it from that it's basically the same thing.
 
I keep a shallow DLR hook and I don't go deep with it across their groin/mid-section. I just feel vulnerable to kneebars and back step passes. I know that a deep DLR works and so I'm missing something, but for now I just like how a more shallow DLR feels. I also find it easier to pull them in with a belt/collar and ankle grip to kick them up in the air or to lift to drop their hips to the mat. It's harder (for me personally) to get the hips to the mat from a deep DLR.

I'm very happy even if I don't get the back with at least one hook. In fact sometimes I prefer to go directly to the leg drag. I really like the side choke/ezekiel chain and the chair sit back attack coming off the drag. Also, I'm better at switching to the twister hook once their hips are on the mat over the "classic" berimbolo. I think that's probably not normal since there are more steps involved. I always try to get the hips to the mat, x-hook to lift them up, switch to the twister hook, and take the back. Or I just take the hips to the mat and go leg drag. I rarely to the day 1/basic berimbolo. Also, a lot of times I actually roll over into the 'bolo off the classic 1 leg X guard sweep. I probably do that just as much as the DLR setup.

I'm 6'1", 180, and I'm also a baby giraffe with long legs like you. For what it's worth.


So drew you set up the twister hook like Rafa does in this AOJ video at around 0:20 and like in the trumpet dan/miyao video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ2DK_uMK_8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlpPX9gHFM0
 
So drew you set up the twister hook like Rafa does in this AOJ video at around 0:20 and like in the trumpet dan/miyao video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ2DK_uMK_8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlpPX9gHFM0

Yes, 100%. That's exactly it. I find it easier. I like being able to keep the grips tight and lift them up while I do the leg work, as opposed to the typical berimbolo where I feel like I almost have to "catch up" to them as I'm finishing the movement. I need to just do the normal berimbolo more. My preference for going to the twister hook is 100% due to the fact that I've drilled it more, and I used to do the ninja roll/rolling back take before the berimbolo got big, So I was used to having my same side leg hooked through (my right leg to their right leg, my left to their left). When I try the rolling back take using the opposite leg, I also have some more difficulty with that.

If you're having a hard time picturing the rolling back take using the opposite leg, here you go:
 
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