Ben Askren vs Kamaru Usman - who wins?

[vanillaisis]

Couldn't handle Sapo though

Yeah because we judge fights based on 2 minutes of action and take into consideration the fight was at 185 and Sapo was probably roided. I don't put much stock into it Sapo refused the rematch. Believe what you want.

 

[mkt]

Ben does what he always does he imposes his will upon Usman and breaks him.

Except when he doesn't, like barely beating Jay Hieron (far inferior wrestler/fighter to Usman) and the scary fight vs. Santos in OneFC (conveniently ended by eyepoke from Askren).

 

[Marc A]

I think Usman crushes him

- Just as good, if not better of an MMA wrestler
- Far superior striker
- Better cardio
- More proven against elite competition

American Nightmare takes it
No blueprint to beat him

 

[vanillaisis]

Except when he doesn't, like barely beating Jay Hieron (far inferior wrestler/fighter to Usman) and the scary fight vs. Santos in OneFC (conveniently ended by eyepoke from Askren).

Before the Hieron fight Ben has said in interviews he was training striking 6 days a week and also doing a lot of BJJ. He wasn't working on his wrestling. It's not really an excuse for his performance but I sincerely believe he neglected his wrestling bigtime and it was a huge mistake. I think he learned from that.

 

[mkt]

Before the Hieron fight Ben has said in interviews he was training striking 6 days a week and also doing a lot of BJJ. He wasn't working on his wrestling. It's not really an excuse for his performance but I sincerely believe he neglected his wrestling bigtime and it was a huge mistake. I think he learned from that.

LOL on the striking training...a lot of good that's done him. I still say Usman. Look at the "flow wrestling" videos of Askren and Shields. While Jake doesn't have nearly the wrestling credentials, he got the best of him and shut down his "funky scrambling." I see Usman doing the same...at least enough to get a win.

 

[Dirge]

Except when he doesn't, like barely beating Jay Hieron (far inferior wrestler/fighter to Usman) and the scary fight vs. Santos in OneFC (conveniently ended by eyepoke from Askren).

I actually chuckle a bit every time anyone on this forum brings up the Santos fight as some way to descredit Askren's abilities..

Regarding the Hieron fight, maybe you should listen to Rogan's podcast with Askren. Askren trained pure stand up for almost a year leading up to the Hieron fight (not like it helped but he tried) with Duke and his team. He stated that wrestling like any other skill especially those that are muscle memory driven atrophies and he had underestimated how far it would degrade his abilities and he almost paid for it in the Hieron fight.

And let's not forget, Hieron had a wrestling background as well. Ben went back to training grappling non stop after that and never came close to losing a fight again. In his own words, lesson learned.

And if you think the eyepoke was intentional, perhaps you should watch the fight. While you are at it, perhaps you could explain why Santos was so terrified to rematch and basically sabotaged the second fight.

 

[tweedie]

you guys do realize usman has good TDD but when was the last time he faced a wrestler in the same caliber as askren.

When has Askren ever faced a wrestler in the same caliber as Usman, who also happens to be the far superior striker?

 

[Dirge]

LOL on the striking training...a lot of good that's done him. I still say Usman. Look at the "flow wrestling" videos of Askren and Shields. While Jake doesn't have nearly the wrestling credentials, he got the best of him and shut down his "funky scrambling." I see Usman doing the same...at least enough to get a win.

? Jake Shields has some pretty amazing wrestling or did you not know that he outgrappled Dan Henderson, a bigger better credentially wrestler in an MMA fight.

Also, training is training. Askren routinely handled the long term UFC champ on the mat in training.

 

[patferrari]

When has Askren ever faced a wrestler in the same caliber as Usman, who also happens to be the far superior striker?

lawler landed bombs from hell on his face and he took it like a boss, i think usman is way less of a threat in that deparment. its gonna come down to usman being able to defend takedowns, if he cant its gg

 

[Dirge]

When has Askren ever faced a wrestler in the same caliber as Usman, who also happens to be the far superior striker?

He hasn't. Ironically Hieron is the best wrestler he ever faced. And that fight was close in part due to Askren not having rolled for months prior.

 

[mkt]

When has Askren ever faced a wrestler in the same caliber as Usman, who also happens to be the far superior striker?

One caveat: sure, Askren's faced better wrestlers in pure wrestling competition, but he hasn't faced anyone with Usman's MMA wrestling abilities in MMA--who also have a decided size/strength/striking advantage.

 

[mkt]

? Jake Shields has some pretty amazing wrestling or did you not know that he outgrappled Dan Henderson, a bigger better credentially wrestler in an MMA fight.

Also, training is training. Askren routinely handled the long term UFC champ on the mat in training.

Yes, I'm well aware of Jake outwrestling Hendo (who had a back injury at the time). Jake's a good MMA wrestler but couldn't take down Woodley, didn't even try to take down GSP and got thrown around like a rag doll by both Lombard and Akiyama. Jake's main strength is (was?) combining his wrestling with a strong submission and submission defense game (Maia fight).

 

[smart.feller]

Askren. He's a better finisher than Usman, he has an underrated submission game, and unlike Woodley, Askren realizes that he is a wrestler and hasn't ever fallen in love with the striking game.

 

[Dirge]

Yes, I'm well aware of Jake outwrestling Hendo (who had a back injury at the time). Jake's a good MMA wrestler but couldn't take down Woodley, didn't even try to take down GSP and got thrown around like a rag doll by both Lombard and Akiyama. Jake's main strength is (was?) combining his wrestling with a strong submission and submission defense game (Maia fight).

Training is just that, training. Guys that train together don't go 100 percent (at least they are not supposed to).

Jake won a round against GSP, first guy to do that after his win over Serra.

Woodley doesn't try to grapple. He likes to sit with his back against the cage and throw bombs. He uses his wrestling mostly for TDD (a tactic which failed miserably against Usman).

 

[vanillaisis]

One caveat: sure, Askren's faced better wrestlers in pure wrestling competition, but he hasn't faced anyone with Usman's MMA wrestling abilities in MMA--who also have a decided size/strength/striking advantage.

There's a youtube video of Askren helping Tim Kennedy prepare for a fight. You should watch Askren go 20% the whole time while at the end Kennedy is dripping sweat.

 

[mkt]

Jake won a round against GSP, first guy to do that after his win over Serra.

GSP was dominated that fight until Jake's eyepoke--which is one of the ugliest and most intentional-looking in the sport's history. And the round he "won" had nothing to do with this wrestling. I agree that Jake-Askren training videos shouldn't be considered on the level of an actual fight or grappling match, but it showed how a good wrestler with a size advantage may deal with Askren.

 

[WeedLordBonerHitler]

I know who loses, the fans watching this snoozefest.

 

[wrestlefan]

We've yet to see Askren go full K1... when he does, his opponents will be BEGGING him to wrestle.

 

[Deleted member 429453]

Askren by insanity!

What’s the story behind that one?

 

[cade187]

Curly headed fuck takes it.