News Bellator Dublin - Feb 25th - Moose Vs Vanderford

[careto]

Mma fans don’t understand tune up fights

I understand Bellator giving Queally a "bounce back" fight, although I dont like the idea. But if they are gonna do it, then I would have rather see Queally vs Carlyle or someone who would put on a show. Mousah is a boring C level fighter, who will look to clinch and press Queally against the cage half of the fight.

I would personally put Queally against a fringe top 10 fighter (someone on his level) who is legit. Nallo, Moret, Awad, for example.

 

[Franklin U.]

The fact remains that a lion's share of Moose's losses occurred when a strong offensive wrestling game was employed against him. Even a total shell version of weidman was having success until he gassed and tried getting Moose dq'ed. Both Lovato and Jacare's brand of BJJ is wrestling heavy.

To reiterate - I have Moose here, I want him to win too - but just stating that Vanderford may give him some troubles and has that high cardio, offensive wrestling and pressure style to potentially give Moose problems if his takedowns are landing. Vanderford has looked very good and I do not think anyone knows just how good he is until he takes a step up and takes on a guy like Moose.

p.s. I would hardly call the King Mo fight controversial. Boring and frustrating af? Maybe. But as a big Gegard fan I felt that was a clear victory. If you are that confident Moose got this in the bag, bet it all.

As a supposed mousasi fan ????
Next level ???HUH ?

wrestlefucked again ??
Huh ????

Hes done a 180 in wrestling game and his top game is just brutal.


The prime-sauced to the gills Souza was the last time a grappler/ wrestler was too much for him. It's no coincident that was the fight where mousasi 2.0 was born.

The enormous 5th degree Lovato " defensively grappled ?" Mousasi to a major mma title. Gegard was rather impressive in that fight once he realized Rachel didnt belong. To this day , absolutely question the judging of that CAGE FIGHT title fight.

One of his few weaknesses is still td defense but only against bigger top of the food chain wrestler/ grapplers and they better be able to keep him down at that.

 

[SuspectChin]

With James Gallagher (McGregor Jr.) recently getting embarrassed, take it he'd want a quick rebound by facing easier competition on this card.

 

[Reb]

Aren't Salter and Vanderford at the same level? Salter had nothing for Mousasi. I guess this one will end the same way.

 

[GeneTunney7]

As a supposed mousasi fan ????
Next level ???HUH ?

wrestlefucked again ??
Huh ????

Hes done a 180 in wrestling game and his top game is just brutal.


The prime-sauced to the gills Souza was the last time a grappler/ wrestler was too much for him. It's no coincident that was the fight where mousasi 2.0 was born.

The enormous 5th degree Lovato " defensively grappled ?" Mousasi to a major mma title. Gegard was rather impressive in that fight once he realized Rachel didnt belong. To this day , absolutely question the judging of that CAGE FIGHT title fight.

One of his few weaknesses is still td defense but only against bigger top of the food chain wrestler/ grapplers and they better be able to keep him down at that.

It does not matter if you think the decisions were robberies, the fact remains that Moose has looked like prime Fedor at times, a finishing machine, and then he has looked very human vs some people that have implemented a wrestling heavy attack, and yes, had impressive grappling pedigrees. I never said anyone with wrestling experience or shooting a double leg could trouble Moose, no need to put words in mouth, but it is a fact that 3/4 of his past losses came at the hands of opponents that implemented a wrestling heavy attack.

You also claim he has sealed up these holes, but where is your proof? Him beating Lima - a bjj striker that just got ragdolled by Asomov? John salter - a guy that lost roughly 20% of his fights and was strangled by Lovato? Moose simply has not fought anyone like a prime King Mo or Jacare since, so we do not know what it would really look like if he had.

Eventually you concede "one of his few weaknesses is still td defense", which is really all that I am stating. You also say this only happens vs elite wrestlers and I would counter we simply do not know how good Vanderford is yet. Vanderford was a national champion at NAIA, multi time all American, is undefeated in MMA and has lots of hype via rumors from the gym - we simply do not know how good he is yet, where his ceiling is, and the only way to find that out is to fight a guy like Moose. Maybe he is the next john salter but maybe he is special - that is why they have these fights.

If you are so confident that he has this in the bag, then bet the house. Not sure why you would doubt my being a fan of Moose by simply pointing out facts - he is one of the most well rounded fighters we have ever seen, but no fighter is perfect, and it is no slight to said fighter by pointing out reality. You can nit pick and argue semantics all day, but my original point stands: Moose should win but do not be surprised if Vanderford is able to give him bouts of trouble.

p.s. by 'defensive' vs 'offensive' grappling, I mean the difference between top game and bottom game, using your grappling to get dominant positions (back on vs off vs fence) vs fishing for submissions, being the hammer vs nail and using a more wrestling strong approach.

 

[SBC]

And that would be warranted. Saucy is shot at this point he looked horrible against Salter until the end of round 2 when he hurt him bad with GNP. Hope he wins but Im prob laying down some on Austin. Saucy is as ancient as damn near any active fighter ATM short of like the Fedors and Arlovskis. He's been fighting since 03 and has over 60 MMA fighter and a bunch of boxing/kickboxing bouts too

Even so, if Vanderford manages to get a win over Mousasi, that’s a huge feather in his cap. Mousasi may be slowing down, but he is still a quality opponent and taking out someone that experienced would be nothing to joke about. People are forgetting that it was wins like these in the old days that would have jettisoned a prospect straight to the UFC. Big fight for Vanderford.

 

[SBC]

It does not matter if you think the decisions were robberies, the fact remains that Moose has looked like prime Fedor at times, a finishing machine, and then he has looked very human vs some people that have implemented a wrestling heavy attack, and yes, had impressive grappling pedigrees. I never said anyone with wrestling experience or shooting a double leg could trouble Moose, no need to put words in mouth, but it is a fact that 3/4 of his past losses came at the hands of opponents that implemented a wrestling heavy attack.

You also claim he has sealed up these holes, but where is your proof? Him beating Lima - a bjj striker that just got ragdolled by Asomov? John salter - a guy that lost roughly 20% of his fights and was strangled by Lovato? Moose simply has not fought anyone like a prime King Mo or Jacare since, so we do not know what it would really look like if he had.

Eventually you concede "one of his few weaknesses is still td defense", which is really all that I am stating. You also say this only happens vs elite wrestlers and I would counter we simply do not know how good Vanderford is yet. Vanderford was a national champion at NAIA, multi time all American, is undefeated in MMA and has lots of hype via rumors from the gym - we simply do not know how good he is yet, where his ceiling is, and the only way to find that out is to fight a guy like Moose. Maybe he is the next john salter but maybe he is special - that is why they have these fights.

If you are so confident that he has this in the bag, then bet the house. Not sure why you would doubt my being a fan of Moose by simply pointing out facts - he is one of the most well rounded fighters we have ever seen, but no fighter is perfect, and it is no slight to said fighter by pointing out reality. You can nit pick and argue semantics all day, but my original point stands: Moose should win but do not be surprised if Vanderford is able to give him bouts of trouble.

p.s. by 'defensive' vs 'offensive' grappling, I mean the difference between top game and bottom game, using your grappling to get dominant positions (back on vs off vs fence) vs fishing for submissions, being the hammer vs nail and using a more wrestling strong approach.

Strongly agree. Mousasi is one of those fighters that has a rabid and sometimes quite delusional fan base.If you are ever critical of any flaw in his game, the label you a hater. Some fighters just attract those types of people. The Diaz bros also fall into this category.
Depending on the odds, I might even throw some change on Vanderford.

 

[pankrat]

The fact remains that a lion's share of Moose's losses occurred when a strong offensive wrestling game was employed against him. Even a total shell version of weidman was having success until he gassed and tried getting Moose dq'ed. Both Lovato and Jacare's brand of BJJ is wrestling heavy.

To reiterate - I have Moose here, I want him to win too - but just stating that Vanderford may give him some troubles and has that high cardio, offensive wrestling and pressure style to potentially give Moose problems if his takedowns are landing. Vanderford has looked very good and I do not think anyone knows just how good he is until he takes a step up and takes on a guy like Moose.

p.s. I would hardly call the King Mo fight controversial. Boring and frustrating af? Maybe. But as a big Gegard fan I felt that was a clear victory. If you are that confident Moose got this in the bag, bet it all.

fI we were talking in 2010 I could agree but I do think sherdog has a tendency to parrot prejudices and this is one of them imo.

The fact you only found two of the best BJJ practitioners of all-time seemingly in the juice to support your point in the last decade says it all. You can pretend is accident or anecdotic but its not.

The Weidman fight, as well as Muñoz, Lafiti or most recently Salter shows that trying to wrestle down Mousasi doesnt get you so far.

At this point and pretty much in the last decade, a fundamentally sound, fast striker is more likely to give Mousasi trouble than a strong wrestler: as Machida, Shlemeko or even Lima gave him to different extents, apart from the Hall upset.

If Vandefoord has close to the ground fighting ability of enhanced Ronakdo and Rafael...lets see. Anyways Im not betting all on Mousasi since I think he has lost a step, and after 15+ years as a proffesioal will likely keep losing it

 

[pankrat]

It does not matter if you think the decisions were robberies, the fact remains.

Dont mistake sherdog myths and memes with facts.

You support your "facts" about "strong wrestlers" with two BJJ legends: Jacare and Lobato
Machida and Hall say hello, arguably in more emphatic fashion that Jacare and Lobato.
His more troubled wins in the last decade were vs another striker in Storm and an aged Machida in a rematch

 

[Sweater of AV]

About time. I was wondering when it would get made.

Vanderford deserves the opportunity. He's better than people give him credit for. Unfortunately, UFC bias and being married to PVZ causes people to not think clearly.

 

[GeneTunney7]

Dont mistake sherdog myths and memes with facts.

You support your "facts" about "strong wrestlers" with two BJJ legends: Jacare and Lobato
Machida and Hall say hello, arguably in more emphatic fashion that Jacare and Lobato.
His more troubled wins in the last decade were vs another striker in Storm and an aged Machida in a rematch

Yes, Hall caught Moose and he avenged that loss. Lyoto out pointed him on the feet, but again Moose avenged that loss. That is two of only 5 recent losses, the other 3 came at the hands of fighters that employed a wresting heavy attack.

And what does Jacare and Lovato being decorated in BJJ have to do with anything? Did I say they needed to have collegiate pedigrees? Many fighters from all backgrounds end up being strong wrestlers - take gsp for example - where as many people with wrestling backgrounds have done well in BJJ as wrestling plays a huge part in it (i.e. Nicky Rod). Jacare and Lovato's brand of BJJ is very different than someone like Dillon Danis or Keenan Cornelius' both beat Moose by coming forward and using wrestling, takedowns, pressure and not slick BJJ and catching him in flying Gogoplatas.

Not saying Vanderford will win, but he has a wrestling and pressure orientated style that could cause Moose problems. I don't think this is even slightly controversial, weird it triggered so many, and all over little semantics: "Jacares not a wrestler he is a BJJ guy....Lovato did not really win.....strikers have also beat moose so your point makes no sense.....only big wrestlers that are on steroids beat moose....because he beat salter that means he is the perfect fighter now with no holes". <Lmaoo>

I am done here. Enjoy the night of fights.

 

[TorontoTO]

Yes, Hall caught Moose and he avenged that loss. Lyoto out pointed him on the feet, but again Moose avenged that loss. That is two of only 5 recent losses, the other 3 came at the hands of fighters that employed a wresting heavy attack.

And what does Jacare and Lovato being decorated in BJJ have to do with anything? Did I say they needed to have collegiate pedigrees? Many fighters from all backgrounds end up being strong wrestlers - take gsp for example - where as many people with wrestling backgrounds have done well in BJJ as wrestling plays a huge part in it (i.e. Nicky Rod). Jacare and Lovato's brand of BJJ is very different than someone like Dillon Danis or Keenan Cornelius' both beat Moose by coming forward and using wrestling, takedowns, pressure and not slick BJJ and catching him in flying Gogoplatas.

Not saying Vanderford will win, but he has a wrestling and pressure orientated style that could cause Moose problems. I don't think this is even slightly controversial, weird it triggered so many, and all over little semantics: "Jacares not a wrestler he is a BJJ guy....Lovato did not really win.....strikers have also beat moose so your point makes no sense.....only big wrestlers that are on steroids beat moose....because he beat salter that means he is the perfect fighter now with no holes". <Lmaoo>

I am done here. Enjoy the night of fights.

Vanderford is a way more athletic and better cardio version off Salter. Maybe a Lil undersized at MW but Vanderford is a live dog

 

[pankrat]

Yes, Hall caught Moose and he avenged that loss. Lyoto out pointed him on the feet, but again Moose avenged that loss. That is two of only 5 recent losses, the other 3 came at the hands of fighters that employed a wresting heavy attack.

And what does Jacare and Lovato being decorated in BJJ have to do with anything? Did I say they needed to have collegiate pedigrees? Many fighters from all backgrounds end up being strong wrestlers - take gsp for example - where as many people with wrestling backgrounds have done well in BJJ as wrestling plays a huge part in it (i.e. Nicky Rod). Jacare and Lovato's brand of BJJ is very different than someone like Dillon Danis or Keenan Cornelius' both beat Moose by coming forward and using wrestling, takedowns, pressure and not slick BJJ and catching him in flying Gogoplatas.

Not saying Vanderford will win, but he has a wrestling and pressure orientated style that could cause Moose problems. I don't think this is even slightly controversial, weird it triggered so many, and all over little semantics: "Jacares not a wrestler he is a BJJ guy....Lovato did not really win.....strikers have also beat moose so your point makes no sense.....only big wrestlers that are on steroids beat moose....because he beat salter that means he is the perfect fighter now with no holes". <Lmaoo>

I am done here. Enjoy the night of fights.

You were done with my last reply, friend. You only dug ur hole deeper here lol.

 

[Dantès]

I'm picking Austin VanZant

ManZant

 

[Franklin U.]

It does not matter if you think the decisions were robberies, the fact remains that Moose has looked like prime Fedor at times, a finishing machine, and then he has looked very human vs some people that have implemented a wrestling heavy attack, and yes, had impressive grappling pedigrees. I never said anyone with wrestling experience or shooting a double leg could trouble Moose, no need to put words in mouth, but it is a fact that 3/4 of his past losses came at the hands of opponents that implemented a wrestling heavy attack.

You also claim he has sealed up these holes, but where is your proof? Him beating Lima - a bjj striker that just got ragdolled by Asomov? John salter - a guy that lost roughly 20% of his fights and was strangled by Lovato? Moose simply has not fought anyone like a prime King Mo or Jacare since, so we do not know what it would really look like if he had.

Eventually you concede "one of his few weaknesses is still td defense", which is really all that I am stating. You also say this only happens vs elite wrestlers and I would counter we simply do not know how good Vanderford is yet. Vanderford was a national champion at NAIA, multi time all American, is undefeated in MMA and has lots of hype via rumors from the gym - we simply do not know how good he is yet, where his ceiling is, and the only way to find that out is to fight a guy like Moose. Maybe he is the next john salter but maybe he is special - that is why they have these fights.

If you are so confident that he has this in the bag, then bet the house. Not sure why you would doubt my being a fan of Moose by simply pointing out facts - he is one of the most well rounded fighters we have ever seen, but no fighter is perfect, and it is no slight to said fighter by pointing out reality. You can nit pick and argue semantics all day, but my original point stands: Moose should win but do not be surprised if Vanderford is able to give him bouts of trouble.

p.s. by 'defensive' vs 'offensive' grappling, I mean the difference between top game and bottom game, using your grappling to get dominant positions (back on vs off vs fence) vs fishing for submissions, being the hammer vs nail and using a more wrestling strong approach.

Whoa- never even mentioned his next defense or wagering on it.
* next level just didnt make sense ( hes been elite for career and still running)and his wrestling now a strength as he'll use it if it's the easiest path.

I only referenced defensive grappling on the part of Lovato and his rather lame game plan. This isnt the Mundials or a polaris event. Its cage fighting / MMA- one judge got it right.

 

[TorontoTO]

 

[Moosetony]

As a supposed mousasi fan ????
Next level ???HUH ?

wrestlefucked again ??
Huh ????

Hes done a 180 in wrestling game and his top game is just brutal.


The prime-sauced to the gills Souza was the last time a grappler/ wrestler was too much for him. It's no coincident that was the fight where mousasi 2.0 was born.

The enormous 5th degree Lovato " defensively grappled ?" Mousasi to a major mma title. Gegard was rather impressive in that fight once he realized Rachel didnt belong. To this day , absolutely question the judging of that CAGE FIGHT title fight.

One of his few weaknesses is still td defense but only against bigger top of the food chain wrestler/ grapplers and they better be able to keep him down at that.

Wait didnt mousasi say he didnt train for the jacare fight

 

[tehMoose]

Wait didnt mousasi say he didnt train for the jacare fight

Mousasi was expected to rematch Ronaldo Souza on August 2, 2014 at UFC 176.[56] However, after UFC 176, was cancelled, Mousasi/Souza was rescheduled and took place on September 5, 2014 at UFC Fight Night 50.

Basically he did a full camp until somewhere mid July and then started a new camp for the new date but he injured his back and only light sparred twice a week if I remember correctly from his live Q&A interview. He fought injured

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

Glad to see that the 5 people who still care passionately about Gegard's career are still alive and rooting hard for him...

 

[Franklin U.]

Wait didnt mousasi say he didnt train for the jacare fight

I know he had put in the whole process only for fight to get put on hold a bit but I'm talking that was last fight where his brother was lead trainer & bringing in " friends and other athletes around their Olympic team " to help get him ready for fights. I used to hear Geiywik s (bro- might have botched his nsme) translation to up coming fights or his broken English and it was cringe. That all changed after " mega" jacare pretty much dominated moose.

Thst was the last fight he fought under his brothers direction. He then went on to murder all 7 fighters on his final 8 fight UFC deal. Hes 12 for 12 for my money ( I thought he whooped Rachel Lovato ).