Bellator 170 Grappling

[Kr1st0ff]

During the fights last night, it seemed that whenever someone established Back Control, they crossed their feet. It happened multiple times.
That's a mistake right? Doesn't it set the Back Controller up for a straight ankle lock? Is that not a viable option for MMA?
Thinking about it I've never seen anyone really capitalize on that. Why not?

 

[The Persian Prince]

My understanding is that a straight ankle lock in a fight with high adrenaline isn't a fight ender. Crossed feet offers better control of the opponent which they then attempt to put on a body triangle in most cases. In bjj a lot of schools frown upon going for the RNC grip across the face for more of a submission on the jaw in a fight however it's fair game and you have much more to worry about then straight ankle locking your opponent.

Just like tasing a drunk guy doesn't work neither would straight ankle locking a tough mma fighter with a shit ton of adrenaline

That's my understanding atleast someone might be able to go more in depth into the actual jiu jitsu part of it

 

[trustdoesntrust]

I didn't see the fights you're referring to, but in my experience there's a difference between crossing your ankles below the opponent's waist (as your hooks would traditionally be), and crossing them at or above the waist, which carries no danger. Also, one may find it a dead end to worry about getting that crossed ankle lock against a good opponent, since defending against the choke and escaping the back mount is of highest importance.

 

[Kr1st0ff]

That's true. They probably wouldn't tap but if they break the ankle (and the ref notices) the fight is over!

I've never had it done to me but I've put a few people in it and it seems VERY painful lol. I usually feel like an asshole for doing so too

 

[Kr1st0ff]

I didn't see the fights you're referring to, but in my experience there's a difference between crossing your ankles below the opponent's waist (as your hooks would traditionally be), and crossing them at or above the waist, which carries no danger. Also, one may find it a dead end to worry about getting that crossed ankle lock against a good opponent, since defending against the choke and escaping the back mount is of highest importance.

I know for sure it happened in 2 matches.

Ortiz crossed his but right at the waist, out of danger.

The others crossed them low. When they're real low like that, it's a hands free submission. You can still defend your upper body. If you don't get it then you're still ok to escape as well.

It's a gift wrapped submission! Take it! Haha. I've done it 3 times. 2 tapped, 1 removed his feet from there but he panicked in pain. It's legit

 

[trustdoesntrust]

I know for sure it happened in 2 matches.

Ortiz crossed his but right at the waist, out of danger.

The others crossed them low. When they're real low like that, it's a hands free submission. You can still defend your upper body. If you don't get it then you're still ok to escape as well.

It's a gift wrapped submission! Take it! Haha. I've done it 3 times. 2 tapped, 1 removed his feet from there but he panicked in pain. It's legit

Try getting this in an MMA fight against a Bellator-level fighter. At the very least, it will be difficult and you may find that he refuses to tap no matter what. This uncertainty would be enough for me to not try it, since it works against my main goal when backmounted, which is to escape my hips off to one side. I also feel like it puts me at a disadvantage when handfighting, since I'm locking my spine into a straight alignment. That's a lot of concessions for a low-percentage submission.

 

[Kr1st0ff]

Try getting this in an MMA fight against a Bellator-level fighter. At the very least, it will be difficult and you may find that he refuses to tap no matter what. This uncertainty would be enough for me to not try it, since it works against my main goal when backmounted, which is to escape my hips off to one side. I also feel like it puts me at a disadvantage when handfighting, since I'm locking my spine into a straight alignment. That's a lot of concessions for a low-percentage submission.

When you pass to the side like that, do you remove the hooks first or leave them be?

 

[trustdoesntrust]

When you pass to the side like that, do you remove the hooks first or leave them be?

Well I'm talking about the fundamental back escape, where your goal is to get your outside shoulder to the mat and then turn in. Ideally, you'll want to get so that you're sitting on your opponents thigh, which requires scooting your hips up and out to that side, hooks or no hooks. However, to do any of this against a good opponent you'll need to break out of the seatbelt control he has on your upper body. This gets a little more complex, but basically your options are getting a deep overlook/half-Kimura on the choking arm (my personal favorite), collapsing your weight to the non-choking side, or getting a 2-on-1 grip on the choking arm and pulling it over your head. Once you've controlled the arm and scooted your hips/shoulder out, then you can turn on top. The classic method is to end up in your opponents closed guard, but I like to grab my opponents heel and turn all the way in to single x.

 

[Old Man]

 

[todm]

I've seen MMA fighters refuse to tap to armbars, kimuras, kneebars, and even heel hooks. It's highly unlikely a high level fighter is going to tap to an ankle lock when he has dominant position, especially since there are ways to mitigate the pressure.

 

[Zefram Cochrane]

There is a submission there in certain spots, it's true. However, how many times do we see people refusing to tap even in grappling at high level tournaments when they sense they can still win and the stakes are high sportwise?

Also, ankle locks don't have a bad reputation like heel hooks, right or wrong, so people don't fear as much to remain crippled.

Plus, imagine tapping when you have back mount. Seriosuly, I'm convinced it's ingrained in our grappling brains that when we are in a dominant position, such as back mount, tapping doesn't compute many competitors just gut it out. Look at all that shit Pesta got for tapping to an ezekiel when he had mount.

I mean, people don't tap to worse than ankle locks even in the regional circuits.

Spoiler