Be a man.... take a stand! How many years does Jon Jones get?

When does Jones come back?

  • Total voters
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dimspace said:
its plausible but theres no evidence to either prove it or disprove it.

All we know is that the turinabol entered his system sometime after 7th July and before around the 26th July

we know the earliest point because of his last negative test

And we know it was the long term metabolite they detected not actual turinabol so it must have been administered long enough before his sample was collected on weigh-in day for the actual turinabol to have left his system

So we can whittle it down to 7-26 July for when it was administered

beyond that, we have no idea.


If we presume intentional use there are really only two options. It could be Jones took turinabol unaware of the new testing protocol and thinking it had a short detection window, It could be as Conte hypothesises that he took something else with a short detection window that was contaminated with turinabol. There is nothing to disprove either theory, but there is nothing to prove it either.

If it is non-intentional use then it would be a supplement consumed between 7th and 26th that he hadnt used previously, and did not use after the 26th July. So a supplement that he had never used before that he took a month before the fight and stopped using 4-5 days before the fight. That he cannot remember taking, did not write on his doping control form, and has been unable to provide to USADA. But again, there is nothing to prove or disprove that this is what happened.



which leaves us with...

USADA have demonstrated that he had a long term metabolite of turinabol in his system. That is all they have to prove or demonstrate. They dont have to prove how it got there, only that it was present.

Its down to Jones team to either, prove it got there unintentionally, or that the testing and analysis protocol is flawed. They already stated in the CSAC hearing that there were no errors in the collection or analysis procedure and they accept the presence of it in his sample. Which leaves their only option to demonstrate unintentional use.

The only possible way they get a reduction is if they can demonstrate that.
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I only bring up Conte's theory because so many people have looked at how odd the timing seems and thought it somehow let him off the hook. As in "why would he pull a stunt like this"/"he's too smart for this" kind of a thing, but no plausible theory explaining away total responsibility on his part. The idea being it was somehow not his fault and this lets him off the hook.

Naturally I understand that it doesn't really matter in the end. He is 100% responsible for what goes into his body, and it's not up to USADA to construct plausible reasons why he is not really at fault or shouldn't receive an appropriate penalty. They only have to prove that this stuff was in his system, not tell us how it got there.
 
I think he'll get the full 4 as per guidelines.
UFC just don't have the pull or money to fuck with USADA who deal with much bigger fish than UFC every day of the week.
 
ocfightfan said:
I only bring up Conte's theory because so many people have looked at how odd the timing seems and thought it somehow let him off the hook.
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this is the thing, there is nothing odd about the timing at all.

He was tested at the start of July, a month out from the fight. When that test happened, it would be a good guess that that would be his last test before fight week. Usada are pretty predictable in some ways. What we repeatedly see is they hit the fighters about 6-7 weeks out, and then 3-4 weeks before the fight, and thats it then till the weigh-ins. So its not a stretch to think that Jon was pretty confident those early July tests would be his last till fight week.


Think about it, what is the perfect time to take peds?

Is it 6 weeks out from the fight? No.. because USADA could turn up any minute, we know they test maybe 6-7 weeks out and 3-4 weeks out.

Is it 4 weeks out from the fight? No, because again, we know that USADA could turn up any minute.

Is it 4 weeks out from the fight when youve just been tested? Yes. Because having just been tested you can be confident (to a degree) that you wont be tested again for a little while, and if its 3-4 weeks out from the fight thats probably it until fight week.


Four weeks out from the fight, having just been tested, so being confident he wont be tested again till fight week is the PERFECT time for Jones to take PEd's.. thats the time when you are most likely to get away with it.



So.. you are Jones, 4 weeks out from the fight, just been tested so confident you wont be tested now till fight week.. youve time to run a quick booster. You talk to your doctor or a gym mate..

a) he tells you turinabol has a 48-72 hour detection window (not knowing there is a new test for it) so you can run it for 2 weeks and just come off before you fly to vegas

or

b) he suggests you run some sort of testosterone cycle, saying again that its got a short detection window (but unfortunately for you its contaminated).




So no, the timing doesnt seem odd.

Had he been caught by a test four weeks out that would have been odd because he would have known USADA were due any time.

Had he been caught out and tested positive six weeks out, again, that would have been really odd because he would have known USADA were due at any time.

Running a cycle 3 weeks out when youve just been tested, makes complete sense..



If I was going to run a quick cycle prior to the fight, that is EXACTLY when I would do it (And probably testosterone.



(The people saying the timing makes no sense are mainly people on the Jones side of the argument looking to plant doubt in peoples minds)
 
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dimspace said:
this is the thing, there is nothing odd about the timing at all.

He was tested at the start of July, a month out from the fight. When that test happened, it would be a good guess that that would be his last test before fight week. Usada are pretty predictable in some ways. What we repeatedly see is they hit the fighters about 6-7 weeks out, and then 3-4 weeks before the fight, and thats it then till the weigh-ins. So its not a stretch to think that Jon was pretty confident those early July tests would be his last till fight week.


Think about it, what is the perfect time to take peds?

Is it 6 weeks out from the fight? No.. because USADA could turn up any minute, we know they test maybe 6-7 weeks out and 3-4 weeks out.

Is it 4 weeks out from the fight? No, because again, we know that USADA could turn up any minute.

Is it 4 weeks out from the fight when youve just been tested? Yes. Because having just been tested you can be confident (to a degree) that you wont be tested again for a little while, and if its 3-4 weeks out from the fight thats probably it until fight week.


Four weeks out from the fight, having just been tested, so being confident he wont be tested again till fight week is the PERFECT time for Jones to take PEd's.. thats the time when you are most likely to get away with it.


So.. you are Jones, 4 weeks out from the fight, just been tested so confident you wont be tested now till fight week.. youve time to run a quick booster. You talk to your doctor or a gym mate..

a) he tells you turinabol has a 48-72 hour detection window (not knowing there is a new test for it) so you can run it for 2 weeks and just come off before you fly to vegas

or

b) he suggests you run some sort of testosterone cycle, saying again that its got a short detection window (but unfortunately for you its contaminated).




So no, the timing doesnt seem odd.

Had he been caught by a test four weeks out that would have been odd because he would have known USADA were due any time.

Had he been caught out and tested positive six weeks out, again, that would have been really odd because he would have known USADA were due at any time.

Running a cycle 3 weeks out when youve just been tested, makes complete sense..



If I was going to run a quick cycle prior to the fight, that is EXACTLY when I would do it (And probably testosterone.



(The people saying the timing makes no sense are mainly people on the Jones side of the argument looking to plant doubt in peoples minds)
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Interesting, thanks for the breakdown.
 
So every time a source that may actually have a clue says something it seems to be he'll be getting off shortly.

The only ones spouting he'll be getting a 4 year ban seem to be angry gammon.
 
Rvd Slmr said:
In February. He only made his case worst by claiming he still ignores all of USADA safeguards.
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He couldn't even provide anything at the hearing. It was terrible. He basically came in like a kid in the principles office and said "wasn't me, no way".
 
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Thanks to black privilege he will be fighting in 2019 but should be banned for at least 4 years.
 
Crom Cruach said:
I think he'll get the full 4 as per guidelines.
UFC just don't have the pull or money to fuck with USADA who deal with much bigger fish than UFC every day of the week.
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Jon seems awful confident for someone who's about to get suspended for four years.
 
Gorkle said:
So every time a source that may actually have a clue says something it seems to be he'll be getting off shortly.

The only ones spouting he'll be getting a 4 year ban seem to be angry gammon.
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what sources are party to the actual discussions between Jones team and USADA?

The only people involved in that will be Jones, Howard Jacobs, Malki and USADA

Chael, Dana, whoever else, none of them are party to whats going on.



Remember Dana last time.. looking good for Jon...

I9t7VoJ.png


Shortly before Jones got the maximum possible suspension
 
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Mbmmax said:
Jon seems awful confident for someone who's about to get suspended for four years.
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Jones was confident last time - then he got the maximum possible ban

upload_2018-8-20_1-23-22.png

"really good news, back in the Octagon soon"

He was confident then... and what happened?
 
dimspace said:
what sources are party to the actual discussions between Jones team and USADA?

The only people involved in that will be Jones, Howard Jacobs, Malki and USADA

Chael, Dana, whoever else, none of them are party to whats going on.
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And Malki, Jones, and Jacobs have reason to BS a short ban: it makes Jon look like the victim if he gets a long one. Malki also said Jones was getting off and would be back immediately just prior to his last ban, and he ended up sitting out the max.

USADA is barred from commenting on it in most circumstances, per the UFC ADP. And they're never going to comment on how long a sanction will be before it comes down.
 
His cheating record should really only bug his opponents, if they have no problem with his return then why should we??

I think fighters should just black list him and refuse to fight him.
 
Imo he never comes back because after the 4 year suspension punishment he will fuck up big time.
eg, kill himself (best case scenario) or someone else while DUI , prison for narcotics etc
He cant go 4 years without screwing anything up and he wont have anyone helping to bail him out.
 
ocfightfan said:
What do you think of Victor Conte's explanation for Jones most recent test failure? That being he was taking a short acting drug that had cleared his system prior to the test, but it was tainted by what he got busted for because the people who made it failed to properly clean their equipment. Does that sound plausible to you?
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It's reasonable, but it does nothing to vindicate Jones. Telling USADA "yea, I actually took stanozolol, but it wasn't clean, my bad" will not get him a reduction. Shitty labs absolutely exist, see the link below. Turinabol isn't something that's going to accidentally contaminate a supplement or drug coming from a legit source, though, or shit lab that 's even attempting to be legal. Jones either

-intentionally took turinabol (unlikely, but he's done dumber shit),
-took something else that was banned that was tainted with turinabol (likely, IMO, and what Conte's getting at),
-took a supplement from an incredibly shady source when he said he was being like, super careful (probably not, as he's tested about 5 times as many supplements as he said he took), or
-someone dosed him (which has happened before, but it's unlikely. Maybe he and Cowboy are eskimo brothers).

There's no way to prove which one at this point.

Keep in mind what his excuse was last time: That he took a dick pill from a guy he barely knew. The package it came in said it was not fit for human consumption and to contact poison control if ingested. The receipt for it also listed clomiphene. It was ordered from All-American Peptide, which no sane person would think wasn't risky as fuck. All while he knew he was subject to strict, no-notice drug testing.
Nothing about Jones' failure would surprise me. As good as he is in the cage, he does retarded shit outside of it, and comes up with equally ridiculous excuses for his behaviour.

https://www.jwatch.org/fw107739/2013/07/29/fda-vitamin-b-50-supplement-tests-positive

Oh, and 3 years. No way he's back this year.
 
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