BBC Our World: Australia and New Zealand Troubled Neighbours

[sweede]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bpwsjn

For decades Australians and New Zealanders have had the right to live and work in each other's country - but those rights have now been curtailed by Australia. Thousands of New Zealanders are being deported from Australia, some with criminal convictions, but others on the grounds of 'bad character'. The New Zealand government claims the policy breaches human rights conventions. Once the closest of neighbours, the special bond between Australia and New Zealand appears to be fracturing.

As the title says, the last episode of Our World visited Australia and New Zealand. A unique brotherly relationship in the same vein as my country and Denmark. I worked and lived in Denmark from 1997-2007 and after watching and have learnt some of the fates in programme, I´m quite shocked. If I was having a minor traffic offence as I have had a few times driving to fast, the first thought of mine would not be that of being deported back to Sweden.

The action against those with a bad character and putting them in jail, waiting for deportation seems rather non-western way to handle things. Most of the deported came to Australia while they were kids, living all their life and had their own kids, and then Australia just kick them back to NZ separating them from the children? By this Australia is breaking the UN convention on the rights of the child.

This is the first time I have heard of the home affairs minisiter Peter Dutton. A man that has so much power he can deport people on character grounds alone, even if no crime has been commited. What is this?? How can he still have this job?

To aussies in here, I would like to know your opinion about this matter, because there is something really rotten going on.

Peter Dutton

 

[uppercutbus]

Maybe this sets a precedent and will apply equally to immigrants from the third world who commit the same crime or worse. They'll be deported right?

Spoiler

 

[sweede]

Maybe this sets a precedent and will apply equally to immigrants from the third world who commit the same crime or worse. They'll be deported right?

Spoiler

I could much more understand if they were deporting people that are career criminals or terrorist, and with the hard stance Australia is having against biker clubs and making them outlaws. We are talking about neighbours with the same language and with a shared history.

You can´t be serious comparing people from New Zealand with those that come from a third world country.

 

[uppercutbus]

I could much more understand if they were deporting people that are career criminals or terrorist, and with the hard stance Australia is having against biker clubs and making them outlaws. We are talking about neighbours with the same language and with a shared history.

You can´t be serious comparing people from New Zealand with those that come from a third world country.

Yes, that makes the case even more absurd if they are only applying it to NZ'ers, but not anyone else. If so, it's more than just a very bad policy.

 

[LemonGrab]

This is called a good start.

 

[VivaRevolution]

This is called a good start.

A good start to what?

 

[LemonGrab]

A good start to what?

Kicking out scumbags and closing the borders. Dutton is also the one taking flak for offering to take in White South African Farmers because they would make a greater contribution than the majority of shit that's been flooding the country.

 

[Swing]

Seems really short sighted, but my knowledge of their relationship is limited to my recollection of that one Flight of the Concords episode. "Big Rock."

 

[sweede]

Kicking out scumbags and closing the borders. Dutton is also the one taking flak for offering to take in White South African Farmers because they would make a greater contribution than the majority of shit that's been flooding the country.

Again, don´t do this thread to a muslim invasion one. We are talking about your neighbours, or is it them you refer to as shit that is flooding your country?

 

[Supereem]

Again, don´t do this thread to a muslim invasion one. We are talking about your neighbours, or is it them you refer to as shit that is flooding your country?

Kicking out bikies.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

lol and people in the UK use Australia as an example of how we should regulate immigration post brexit.

what a joke

 

[Ruprecht]

Dutton sparked the latest leadership spill in the Liberal party which ousted Turnbull (although he lost).
He's a right-wing populist who accrued a massive "Home Affairs" portfolio combining National Intelligence, Security and Immigration.
New Zealand's comparatively less restrictive immigration laws and over representation in crime (particularly amongst Maoris and Pacific Islanders) are being represented as a "back door" past our national immgration policies (due to the 444 visa arrangement). The "character test" legislation passed in 2014 seriously reduces the level of offences that can result in deportation. I doubt speeding would usually qualify, although it might in Victoria because they are a bit like Switzerland in their response to speeding.

In my opinion the arbitrary nature of the "character test" and the degree of authority it gives to the Home Affairs department is troubling. Especially with a minister seeking to implement populist policies. As usual in Australia, it means we are much too reliant on the "good intentions" of those in power, rather than having any real protection of civil liberties or individual rights.

 

[squeezewax]

We are not chucking loads of kiwis out the country that is a lie! Also any that break the law and we wish to deport end up staying because of legal loopholes.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Its coming

 

[Ruprecht]

We are not chucking loads of kiwis out the country that is a lie! Also any that break the law and we wish to deport end up staying because of legal loopholes.

We've deported about 400 a year over the last three years, but the number is going up. With around 700K New Zealanders in Australia.

 

[LemonGrab]

I could much more understand if they were deporting people that are career criminals or terrorist, and with the hard stance Australia is having against biker clubs and making them outlaws. We are talking about neighbours with the same language and with a shared history.

You can´t be serious comparing people from New Zealand with those that come from a third world country.

I think he was using sarcasm as in the NZ deportations are probably a soft target while the real incompatible and criminal scumbags will sit pretty in Australia. Or be saved from deportation by NPC's blocking their plane rides home as is the new trend.

 

[sweede]

Dutton sparked the latest leadership spill in the Liberal party which ousted Turnbull (although he lost).
He's a right-wing populist who accrued a massive "Home Affairs" portfolio combining National Intelligence, Security and Immigration.
New Zealand's comparatively less restrictive immigration laws and over representation in crime (particularly amongst Maoris and Pacific Islanders) are being represented as a "back door" past our national immgration policies (due to the 444 visa arrangement). The "character test" legislation passed in 2014 seriously reduces the level of offences that can result in deportation. I doubt speeding would usually qualify, although it might in Victoria because they are a bit like Switzerland in their response to speeding.

In my opinion the arbitrary nature of the "character test" and the degree of authority it gives to the Home Affairs department is troubling. Especially with a minister seeking to implement populist policies. As usual in Australia, it means we are much too reliant on the "good intentions" of those in power, rather than having any real protection of civil liberties or individual rights.

I very much appretiate your post!

In the programme they said there are 500 000 NZ living in Australia, and they have been deporting 3700 in a very short time. And yes, one guy with a speeding ticket was sitting in a camp waiting to be deported. A man that has family and a job!

What I did very much react on was that Peter Dutton revoked cases that the highest court has dismissed as mistreatment and issued a new Visa. How can a single man do that in a democracy?

 

[Ruprecht]

I very much appretiate your post!

In the programme they said there are 500 000 NZ living in Australia, and they have been deporting 3700 in a very short time. And yes, one guy with a speeding ticket was sitting in a camp waiting to be deported. A man that has family and a job!

What I did very much react on was that Peter Dutton revoked cases that the highest court has dismissed as mistreatment and issued a new Visa. How can a single man do that in a democracy?

I think there's more than that. There was 650, 000 in 2013 and more arriving. Reports here are that we've deported 1300 over the past 3 years.
The nature of the detention centres is always contentious, because they are effectively prisons (both on and off shore). Often detention during processing equates to a substantial sentence.

There is no bill of rights in Australia. Neither legislative nor constitutional. Dutton's huge portfolio has certainly accrued him a lot of power and political empire. I was very relieved that his leadership challenge wasn't rewarded with an unelected Prime Ministership.
He had his wings clipped a little (lost the immigration portfolio to Coleman).

 

[BAM]

In my opinion the arbitrary nature of the "character test" and the degree of authority it gives to the Home Affairs department is troubling. Especially with a minister seeking to implement populist policies. As usual in Australia, it means we are much too reliant on the "good intentions" of those in power, rather than having any real protection of civil liberties or individual rights.

I don't fully agree with the above. There are real protections such as the ability to seek a judicial review of an administrative decision. Arbitrary decision making is a ground to undo a decision

But, where the Australian gov can be a bit harsh is when they revoke a visa and throw you indefinitely into an immigration detention centre while you go through the court process.

It could be better.

 

[BAM]

Maybe this sets a precedent and will apply equally to immigrants from the third world who commit the same crime or worse. They'll be deported right?

Spoiler

I am aware of immigrants that came in on humanitarian visas having the visa revoked and being sent back to the country of origin which includes war torn countries in Africa. The one I am thinking of was convicted of rape before that happened however.